The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I recently won an original North American cylinder blank, and it has the proper rolled over edges around the channel. I know that it has a new recording on it. (It should arrive tomorrow.) What I found interesting is the fact it went for only $22.00???? Ok so the recording may be new, but a blank that is a minimum of 122 years old, has almost no value???


Which makes me understand why you all think us blank makers are crazy on our $35.00-$50.00 prices per blank. If a 122+ blank is worth only 25.00. If we were to be paid to make blanks near the value of our time they would be $160.00 each,If we were to value the time at $20.00 an hour, which I think is low for something that almost nobody wants or cares to do. Am I in business? Yes for lectures and demonstrations, and live recordings for artists. However where a person can order a cylinder and blank and purchase it, by sending a recording to me, or an order out of the blue No not in business for that.

I was watching the listing also. I questioned if it was an authentic North American cylinder. I'll be interested in what you think about it after you receive it.

Rich Gordon

The blanks is authentic, but the recording is not, don't know until it arrives.

Is a blank still a blank if it's been recorded on? I think that marred its value. Were it a blank blank, I think it would have done better better.

Also too, a blank North American cylinder is more of an artifact that really should be left as-is for its historic value. In that sense, it's of no value to anyone who wants to make a recording. So, aside from its great historic value, it's useless. On the other hand, your blanks serve a practical purpose to anyone who wishes to re-live the practice of making a home cylinder recording. They're also extremely unique given your dedicated research into the formulas & recipes needed to create blanks in a historically accurate manner. There is value in that as well! So, to compare the relative prices of each, is an apples-to-oranges affair. Honestly, they may look the same but are, in reality, two very different items.

I agree no matter how bad the original recording on it was, Nobody should of shaved it!!!!!! I hope it will be here tomorrow. It has a value also as even though it is a blank, it is of a slightly different formula than later brown wax acetate of alumina was used for these early blanks, and required a longer cooking time to rid it of acetic acid. Those made after 1896 which use metallic aluminum sheet vary from white to dark brown. I also found that North American Edison blanks are similar to early Columbia blanks, in they have a single spiral although they are just a bit longer and thicker than early Columbia blanks and that is how you can tell them apart, also early Columbia (1896-1897) blanks tend to be lighter than the North Americans as they used a lower cooking process. In 1898 Columbia started to cook the wax to 475, and the late 1898-1901 brown wax Columbia records are the same size as the Edison blank, however the single spiral in them is wider than the double spiral of Edison blanks (I am currently trying to figure out when Edison switched from single spiral to double.

It arrived, the home recording on it was rather good, it was three different recordings From the voice, it sounds like an rather educated bunch who has levity, and some astuteness, The Hildebrand family the first song is Rings on My fingers and Bells on my toes. I checked and this song was written in 1909, the next song is a quartet and is The Doughnut song which is an old camp song, about someone going into a doughnut shop and grabbing the doughnut out of the hot grease and handing the proprietor a 5 cent piece. how Old, I am not sure, so we know it was recorded after 1909, it is a pretty loud and clear recording for a home recording, there is no blast in it, so someone had known a little about recording technique, still a home recording but a very good one. The last recording I am not sure what it is. The blank is certainly original. It also authenticates the blank I have with the very crude channel, it is cut with some tool on the other, I though it fake, however the physical characteristics of these blanks match. Both waxes, in each blank, even though they came from different places, have the wax has the same smell. If you are not a cylinder maker you have no idea, what I am talking about, but brown wax cylinders, if they are not moldy (you can still smell some of the chemical makeup and both are from the same compound and factory. I have included some photos to further educate you about how to identify different blanks. If anyone has any corrections or anything to add I would greatly appreciate any constructive criticizem.

Considering that the cylinder was possibly less than 20 years old when it was recorded on, I don't think anyone would have given it a second thought. It wasn't a "historic artifact" at the time: just another cylinder which happened to be available.

Bill

I am still wondering what observations others have seen with cylinders, as to tiny almost imperceptible differences, but differences none the less. Observations about spiral differences, channeled rim differences, defects found in blanks.

So we see

North American Edison single spiral and all very near 4 ¼" long, and from 2.150-2.1805" in diameter rounded over edge more reddish color, or salmon for lighter ones.


Columbia early brown wax most under 4 ¼" from 2.130-2.150" in diameter, dainty single spiral, tend to be lighter brown wax, a more brownish color, but not coppery.

Later Columbia brown wax cut 1899+ bigger single spiral, 4 ¼" length rounded over edge and vary from cream to dark brown (they started cooking up to 475F.)


Later Edison blanks 1896+???? double spiral 4 ¼" long, 2.150-2.1855" cream to dark brown, many a orange cast to the brown.