The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I 've been after a 1940's - '50's electric machine to play 1940 & later 78's - the softer stuff that shouldn't be played with a steel needle on an acoustic machine.

I just ordered two new stylii for my "modern" machine: Voice of Music 560-A, which has a Sonotone cartridge with a "flip-over" stylus, 33 / 78.

One stylus is a 1 mil diamond for LP, and 3 mil sapphire for 78's, the other is 0.7 mil Diamond for LP, and 3 mil Sapphire for 78's.


Big question is, should I refrain from playing earlier (pre-1935-'40) 78's on the modern machine? Will the extra grit in the acoustic shellac mixture prematurely grind away my Sapphire stylii ? Granted the tracking weight is measureable in grams, not ounces, but I don't want to inadvertently kill my new stylii...

I play records from Berliners to 1959 rock and roll 78s on my "modern" equipment daily and have done so for years. I have a VM 560-A, in fact, in a blond Mahogany cabinet, great machine. Needles for those are only about $10 each, so that to me is rather negligible. I've never been concerned about one wearing out "early". The 78s tips in them are sapphires and should be replaced every 1000 or so plays, for what it's worth.

Sean

Thanks Sean !

I installed one of my new stylii last night, and the first disc I played was a late '40's Perry Como - "Watching the trains go by" ( or something like that...)

What a warm, rich sound out of the Voice of Music machine !


I then played a variety of acoustic discs, mostly Victor, from "Patent Label" to late Arch-label, and they did well, condition playing a very important role.

A 10" Victor Collins & Harlan ("When the Midnight Choo-choo leave for Alabam") in excellent condition playe very quietly indeed, while a much-abused Orthophonic Frank Crumit (Get away, Old Man, get away!) was pretty noisy.


I did notice some "rasping" / "blasting" in some loud passages on acoustic discs, which I would attribute to that small sapphire bouncing-around in the groove...


All in all, am very happy with this machine.

You can also play around with stylus sizes for better playback on different discs.

A 3 mil stylus is best for most pre WW2 78s. However, one with a lot of surface wear and scratches can benefit from being played with a 2.5 or 2 mil stylus as this allows the needle to sit below the "noise" in the grooves sometimes.

You can play vertically cut records with a stereo cartridge and polarity reversed on one side, either through a mono amp or through a stereo amp that has a mono switch.

I don't think you can get different stylus sizes for flipover needles. And the 78 side is undoubtedly mono, so he wouldn't be able to play diamond disks.

bigshot wrote:I don't think you can get different stylus sizes for flipover needles. And the 78 side is undoubtedly mono, so he wouldn't be able to play diamond disks.

Sure you can on the different sizes, as postwar 78s had a narrower 2.5 groove. And a cartridge is either stereo or mono, not both on different sides unless there's some variation out there I've not seen in the last 50 years.

Frank is specifically talking about his VM machine. The 78 stylus on these is 3 mil, you get no other choices.

Of course, custom styli are available for Stanton, Shure, Ortofon, Audio Technica and other cartridges. I've got at least 12 different sizes for the ones I use and George is absolutely correct, great sound can come from experimenting. DDs, by the way, play best with a 1 mil or so stylus with few exceptions. I like playing everything, hence the large range I've chosen to invest in, no regrets!

Sean

OrthoSean wrote:Frank is specifically talking about his VM machine. The 78 stylus on these is 3 mil, you get no other choices.

Of course, custom styli are available for Stanton, Shure, Ortofon, Audio Technica and other cartridges. I've got at least 12 different sizes for the ones I use and George is absolutely correct, great sound can come from experimenting. DDs, by the way, play best with a 1 mil or so stylus with few exceptions. I like playing everything, hence the large range I've chosen to invest in, no regrets!

Sean

Sean: Actually, years ago I got an assortment of flipovers for our Telefunken through Ed Saunders and some other ones through eBay seller 'carolesneedles' but neither vendor seems to be around anymore and you are correct- all I can find now are the 3 mil.

My main "daily driver" is my old Dual 1009 which is very versatile as you can not only change styli easily, but the cartridges mount to a "sled" which is also easily exchanged. I have one "sled" set up for regular stereo, and another set up for vertical.

Playing vintage 78's on 1950's record players?

That's how I was able to play my 78's way back in the 1970's. A nice Columbia 360 and several since.

I heard my first Diamond Disc by playing it on my families 1964 Magnavox. And surprisingly it sounded good.

One of my current Columbia 360's I have installed a P-132 cartridge, stereo, as there are times I want to play something from the 1960's. Don't complain as I'm not playing my good copies.

As for 1950's mono pickups don't forget the GE VR series. I have a Bogen school phono tube amp setup for this. And a separate mono Hi Fi system upstairs in my den. Grommes amp Whardale speaker, homemade cabinet & a choice of turntables.

So by all means play your vintage acoustics on 1950's record players. It won't hurt them at all.