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Hi,

Picked up a project Credenza from another forum member this weekend. Repaired the dampers, glued some veneer,put on some feet, repaired two orthophonic reproducers, pulled the motor, sealed the horn and spent the day listening to my classical 'electrical' collection. Big sound improvement from my other phonographs. I still have to plane back of grill, due to horn expanding into grill channel, fix the auto brake (need to order new springs) and rebuild the warped front doors.

I have a couple of questions regarding these orthophonics.

The reproducer I'm using only needed new bearings and it sounds pretty good. The other is a basket case, I had to make a repair to the needle bar because it was cracked. I did a temporary repair using solder because I can't take this unit apart due to the pot metal swelling. The diaphragm is also shot, it has about 5 cracks / pinholes which I tried to seal as best I could, I also had to reseal the spider. It sounds ok but I'm thinking this might be a good candidate for one of Ron's brass castings. Has anyone done a rebuild using one of his kits? Any opinions / reviews?

Is it worthwhile to shellac the interior of the horn? I noticed some folks have done this. Does this improve the overall sound? Bear in mind I mainly listen to classical music.

My other question is in regards to music, right now most of my electrical collection is Victor Orthophonic and Red Seal's. Are there other labels that have good classical music recordings? In particular Romance period composers (Chopin / Listz / etc).

Thanks,
-Mike

I would recommend shellacking the horn. (There is also another technique that involves glycerin and alcohol) I do this to all my horns, especially the Orthophonics, because air tightness is extremely important. It's pretty easy to do, and since the inside of the horn is behind the grille cloth on a Credenza, the application doesn't have to be perfect. Just a couple light coats brushed on should seal the wood and improve the sound.

I'd be interested to see what you are doing with the warped front doors and grille. I have the same issue.

-Connor

Yes, there are many great classical 78s on the Columbia label. They were known for emphasizing orchestral and chamber music at a time in the 20s when Victor was still emphasizing opera records. That's when the Columbia Masterworks albums came out. In fact, I have some very early classical albums on Columbia that are pre-electric from the early 20s. I believe Columbia invented the classical album for complete symphonies, concertos, quartets, sonatas, etc.

marcapra wrote:Yes, there are many great classical 78s on the Columbia label. They were known for emphasizing orchestral and chamber music at a time in the 20s when Victor was still emphasizing opera records. That's when the Columbia Masterworks albums came out. In fact, I have some very early classical albums on Columbia that are pre-electric from the early 20s. I believe Columbia invented the classical album for complete symphonies, concertos, quartets, sonatas, etc.

Don't forget the Brunswick Hall Of Fame Gold labels, either. There are also a lot of Euro labels that produce quite terrific sound- Telefunken, Odeon, DGG, Decca, Polydor, Parlophon, etc.

I would suggest sealing all of the visible horn seams with silicone caulk, but not sealing or shellacking it. You're putting something on the wood that wasn't there. At least wait a while & listen to the machine before you go doing that.

melbourne wrote:Hi,

Picked up a project Credenza from another forum member this weekend. Repaired the dampers, glued some veneer,put on some feet, repaired two orthophonic reproducers, pulled the motor, sealed the horn and spent the day listening to my classical 'electrical' collection. Big sound improvement from my other phonographs. I still have to plane back of grill, due to horn expanding into grill channel, fix the auto brake (need to order new springs) and rebuild the warped front doors.

I have a couple of questions regarding these orthophonics.
It sounds ok but I'm thinking this might be a good candidate for one of Ron's brass castings. Has anyone done a rebuild using one of his kits? Any opinions / reviews?



Thanks,
-Mike

I had a new brass gold-plated casting installed several years ago, but I don't know if these were made in the same way Ron's are currently. My casting required the use of a smaller supplied needle bar and smaller ball bearings, because the races (where the bearings are held) were of a smaller inner diameter due to the casting process. The resultant sound was very much affected, IMO, with too much high-end and not as much low-end response as my other good orthophonic reproducers. I ended up sending it to Peter Wall, who reamed out the races to the proper diameter and installed an old-stock needle bar and correct ball bearings. This fixed everything, but was expensive and took a lot of time.
Again, if the castings available nowadays have changed, most of the above may not apply!
Based on my latest experiences I'd highly recommend Wyatt Markus (MicaMonster) if you want to have yours serviced. It may also be easier to find a better specimen altogether and work with that.
Good luck, and enjoy your music!
Bob

Don't know how your Credenza was stored, but thought I'd mention this for whatever it might be worth.

My Credenza came out of a storage space with no climate control where it had been for years. The big front doors were warped. When I got it inside in a climate controlled space with much less humidity the doors straightened themselves out in a couple of weeks.

Clay

Thanks for the helpful advice. I'm really enjoying the Orthophonic in general.

Connor/Clay, the cupping is pretty bad. My plan for addressing the warped door is first the non-invasive route which is long term clamping using a sandwich made from 2x4 and other boards I cut. I'm going to try this for a few weeks and see if that helps correct. The veneer and trim issues I will address if the long term clamping works. Plan B, will be either the cut the doors to reduce the cupping and re-veneer, or rebuild the doors entirely using new veneer/salvaged veneer and reuse existing hardware / trim.

Marcapra/Gramophone-georg, thank you for the different labels. I see some blue 78 Columbia Masterwork and red 78 Red Seal De Luxe records that look interesting. They look to be some early form of Vinyl - these are not usable on the Credenza correct? I saw them for sale on this forum and Ebay and was curious. I've attached an ad of the Red Seal De Luxe.

Estott/Bob, thanks - I'm currently interested in getting opinions. I agree I'll listen first and decide latter. The sound is a pretty big step up from what I had, I'm going to spend the money and get a brass reproducer and/or get a rebuilt unit from one of the recommended rebuilders. I'll also give Ron a ring and see if what he is selling now is an improved/updated version. If it is I'll buy one and treat it as a winter project for the basket case reproducer. I'll be sure to report back here so others can reference in the future.

Thanks,
-Mike

Ad for the Red Seal De Luxe

A brass reproducer would be correct for your machine but it won't offer any radical change in sound. Before I had mine rebuilt I played my Credenza with the well preserved soundbox from my early 30's 2-65 portable. The sound was excellent.

I don't have any of the Red Seal Deluxe Nonbreakable discs, so can't say for sure, but they may well not be playable on your Credenza. Most vinyl records are too soft to hold up under the weight. In many cases the needle will just dig in and things will come to a halt and create disc damage. The only exception I've found so far are V-Discs, which are pretty sturdy.

Clay