The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello all,
As some of you known I am still learning about these awesome and beautifully made machines. I did some research and was able to educate myself when it comes to the different recordings and pre-1925 discs and such. My question is, what are the hazards of playing electronically recorded discs on my Brunswick 117 with steel needles? I have been told that I should only be playing acoustically recorded discs...or if I do play electronically recorded records to make sure I change needle after every use. Can someone explain to me why so I know for sure the reasons. Juat trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks.

You should be changing the steel needle after every play regardless of whether the record is acoustically or electrically recorded. This article may be of interest to you:

http://www.antiquephono.org/basic-antiq ... onal-tips/

You won't damage your Brunswick by playing electrically recorded discs on it. They just may have a lot of blasting which is unpleasant to hear, especially if your reproducer has not been rebuilt with pliable new rubber gaskets. Hard gaskets can inhibit movement of the needle, and contribute to increased record wear as well.

George P.

Pugs13 wrote:Hello all,
As some of you known I am still learning about these awesome and beautifully made machines. I did some research and was able to educate myself when it comes to the different recordings and pre-1925 discs and such. My question is, what are the hazards of playing electronically recorded discs on my Brunswick 117 with steel needles? I have been told that I should only be playing acoustically recorded discs...or if I do play electronically recorded records to make sure I change needle after every use. Can someone explain to me why so I know for sure the reasons. Juat trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks.

As with many aspects, opinions diverge quite a lot. From the changeover from acoustic to electric (1925/26 for most makes) and some years beyond, say up to the mid 30s or WW2, I wouldn't worry at all unless you have any valuable records in excellent condition. Between then and the 1950s two main things happened - frequency range and loudness of records increased (so an acoustic gramophone will increasingly struggle to cope, sound more shrill and wear records faster due to inability to follow the groove intimately *) and other plastics were introduced into the record material (so high playing forces with steel needles will rapidly wear or wreck them).

* This also depends on the sound box (reproducer) being in an optimum state.

Gradually you will get the 'feel' for all-shellac discs - they are more glassy and cold to the touch.

Incidentally, the latter change (plastics) happened much less if at all over here in Europe - one simply finds a few 100% vinyl 78s from late in the 1950s. I have friends who happily enjoy UK-made shellac 1950s records on acoustic gramophones with no ill effect - personally, I usually find the experience overpoweringly strident, much more satisfying on electric machines.

Ditto the advice to have your sound box rebuilt! My experience is that nothing really sounds good on an un-rebuilt box with hard gaskets and isolator; renewing these essentials and properly adjusting the variables (needle bar-diaphragm-spring tension, etc., as applicable) will yield astonishing results. Also ditto the observation in re: acoustic vs. electric. I follow the rule-of-thumb that the only concern is that vinyl discs are no-noes. Various formulations of "shellac" records through the ages have done well for me on my VV-XI, especially small-to-medium size ensembles from early jazz up through the big band era, and vocals, esp. the acoustic opera singers recordings. Large ensembles such as symphony orchestras don't come off as well until the Ortho-type machines. Hope you enjoy your "new'" toy!

This subject comes up fairly regularly, but my answer remains the same. A well designed pre-1925 soundbox which has been properly maintained will not damage electrically recorded shellac 78's, but it will not reproduce them to their full potential.

When electrical recordings took over from acoustics, many owners bought new soundboxes rather than replace their machines. My suggestion would be to keep using the original soundbox on your Brunswick, but also to look out for a later one which will fit it for playing later recordings.

Wow! You guys are extremely awesome! Thank you all for the information. I will take all of it into consideration while playing with my new toy. Does anyone know of where I can get new gaskets and such for a Brunswick 117? Thanks

Pugs13 wrote:Wow! You guys are extremely awesome! Thank you all for the information. I will take all of it into consideration while playing with my new toy. Does anyone know of where I can get new gaskets and such for a Brunswick 117? Thanks

I have used the standard Victor Exhibition sized tubing to rebuild an Ultona with success. You can get this easily, along with most common parts and supplies like needles, from any of the "usual suppliers" including Ron Sitko, George Vollema, Wyatt's Musical Americana, etc. Contact for any and all of these can be found by searching the board. I personally recommend Ron, who does not have a website, but will take calls in the evenings (US Eastern time).

You'll also find this kind of thing on eBay, but prices there will generally be higher than buying from Ron.

I play all of my shellac 78s on my Brunswick Cortez, from early acoustics all the way through to the mid 50s and I don't have any problems.

I'm with Orchorsol and Epigramophone on this matter.

Changing the needle at every play is absolutely a must in any case (it is usually safe to play both sides of the same record with one needle, but the needle should be discarded in any case when passing to another record).

More recent records are recorded louder and with a somewhat wider frequency response. With these, I strongly suggest the use of SOFT or VERY SOFT tone needles, which help the soundbox greatly and also return a more pleasant and natural tone.

In my experience, even most 78s of the 50s were played incorrectly back then, with very old machines and unchanged needles, and will usually come to you already worn out. So, you won't do any more damage by playing them with your gramophone, provided that your soundbox is rebuilt and that you use a new soft tone needle each time. Perhaps, on the long run, you may tend to do it less frequently, as you will begin to perceive the anachronisticity of doing so (that is: you will begin to perceive that the music of the 50s is not period-correct for your gramophone). It has not to be forgotten, anyway, that mechanical portable gramophones were produced and sold well into the 50s.