The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I recently acquired an Edison W-250. I typically play a record on a new machine with lid open and closed and notice an improvement with the lid closed. I have done this with 5 or 6 Edison DD's and 7 or 8 Victrola's and One Sonora. The W-250 sounds significantly better with the lid open. I've had 2 other collectors also comment on the difference while visiting. So my question is, has any other W-250 owner noticed this, and has anyone noticed this with another phonograph?

I would expect surface noise to be greater with the lid open. Have you experienced that?

Whenever I play records on my gramophones with lid open, in all cases at first I get the impression of a better sound, however it is misleading: the open lid makes me hear more the high end of the spectrum, which is mainly made up of noise and hiss (especially on the acoustically recorded ones, like most Edison discs). Now I prefer to close the lid (in the ones that allow me to do so) - the extraneous noises are filtered out and I can listen better to the music.

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes I do notice less surface noise with lid closed and a fuller spectrum open.That is what I've found too. I'll have to test some more, but so far this is the first phonograph I prefer with the lid open, and it's significant. I would love to hear from some other W-250 owners and hear what they have to say.

The low horn on that style of machine is also part of the problem. Phonographs with higher horns will sound better (or at least louder) as well.

This is an age old debate it seems. I am among those who had nearly always closed the lid on my phonographs. But sometimes it does seem that the sound is a bit wider in scope with the lid up. Still I prefer overall it down. When listening to the edison I have slowly lowered the lid. The sound coming from the front of the machine seems to become somewhat richer in tone as the lid forces all the sound out though the horn. It makes it a bit like a personal preference to me. I believe that victor in some of its literature suggested closing the lid while playing, no doubt it does reduce some of the blast effect of the diaphragm. Another point I find is that sound from a horn is concentrated at a "Sweet Spot", usually directly infront of the horn opening and back 5 or six feet from the horn, maybe a bit more. The level of your ear or mic also is important to hear the most sound from your machine. Edisons are especially sensitive to location of the listener for the maximum effect. My 800 Columbia I notice is rather dull when standing in the room, but when seated the sound becomes more solid. It tends to send the sound sideways from the machine rather than upward due to the way the internal sound pattern is projected. Lastly the open lid portables which can't be played closed can tend to project a rather wide sound, but lacking in some of the depth that a internal larger horn can offer.

I seem to recall reading that during the development of the Edison Diamond Disc reproducer, there was concern for the incidence of some recorded frequencies being conveyed out through the top of the reproducer sound tube. I would presume this occurred at the 90° bend -- in which the forming process most likely caused the metal to become thinned out -- in relation to the cup, and straight section of the sound tube.

I think it's obvious that the engineers weren't able to overcome this undesired characteristic.

Unfortunately, the surface noise of many records is conveyed outward in all directions from the area contacted on the record by the reproducer's diamond stylus also, and with some recordings, it can overwhelm the high frequency passages that become more noticeable with the lids open.

Just my $.02, YMMV.

Best,
Fran