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Hey Guys -

My Edison Standard Model B cylinder phonograph has been a "project" of mine for a while.

I just purchased a Model K combination reproducer for $130. (I think that's a good deal?)

Well, my question is what cylinders can and can't I play with this reproducer?

Thanks for your help!

A Model K reproducer is a combination C and H. Use the C for 2-minute wax cylinders and the H for the 4-minute wax cylinders. You may also listen to Blue Amberols on the H.

Rocky

And for the 2 minutes, that's only the black 2 minutes. Don't use it for the brown wax 2 mintues.

I still disagree that any sapphire stylus should be used to play celluloid cylinders.
Of course you "can" play BA's with a 4 min sapphire because the stylus is the right size, but celluloid will wear a sapphire much quicker than a diamond. It probably doesn't matter too much if you only use a sapphire on celluloid, but if you later use it on 4 minute wax cylinders, the cylinder will wear rapidly & sound very noisy as the worn sapphire cuts the wax. You'll also find an BA's that are out of round will not play well with a sapphire- especially with a Model K.
If you've got another machine that plays BA's, I'd only use the K for wax. The sapphire was designed to play wax & a diamond for celluloid.

I agree that the Model H reproducer is not ideal for Blue Amberols. In my experience, about one out of four BAs will not play well with an H. I listen to my BAs on Amberola machines with diamond styli. I have a Model C in the Edison Standard D and use the machine exclusively for 2-minutes. I have very few wax Amberols, and make little effort to collect them.



Rocky

This topic has come up in the past on other phono forums and there isn't really a right or wrong answer to playing celluloid cylinders with a sapphire stylus. The Lambert Co. produced the first celluloid cylinders starting in 1902, and because the sapphire stylus was the only game in town at this time, they were played with this stylus. When Albany took over Lambert's patent in 1905-6, these records continued to be played with the sapphire stylus until Edison's Diamond Mod. B & A came about in 1912.
There are several collectors that have stated on these forums that they have played their BAs for years with a sapphire stylus w/o any discernable wear.
A worn sapphire or diamond stylus playing a BA will be most noticeable on a vocal and you will hear an "echo." For the BAs that don't play well with a sapphire stylus, it would be more than likely because the celluloid has shrunk, causing the grooves to narrow unless the sapphire is really flattened from wear. As far as a worn sapphire tearing up a wax Amberol, I believe this would only happen if the stylus was chipped.
I personally don't make it a habit to play BAs with a sapphire Reproducer, but if I play my Gem D with Mod. K Reproducer, I don't hesitate to play a BA on it on occasion.

You may also recall someone posting information that one of the reasons the Lambert company failed was because of complaints from customers about needle damage.

gramophoneshane wrote:You may also recall someone posting information that one of the reasons the Lambert company failed was because of complaints from customers about needle damage.

No, I didn't see that posted info. My understanding was that they were sued by Edison for the patent rights to manufacture celluloid cylinders and although they prevailed, they had to go into receivership due to the heavy cost of litigation. It seems Albany didn't have that problem as they survived making celluloid cylinders until the fire that destroyed the factory in '22.

Yes, Albany did survive until 1922, and even made 2 min cylinders for 6 yrs after Edison had stopped making them, but then I also believe the foreword in the Indestructible book which states Indestructible made & advertised a reproducer with a diamond stylus to play their cylinders.

Ok, I'm still waiting for a pic or some other info on that Reproducer and when it came out.