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I have a chance to grab this for 2 bills. I'm not really up on my Panatropes, and, wanting to do some research, wondered which model this is. I know it's not the Cortez (I wish). My only Panatrope is the late '20s portable, which has very good reproduction. Thanks to all.

I don't have my handy Wakeman book handy at work, but it looks like a "Madrid" to me. Nice machines with nice sound.

Sean

The Brunswick non-electric Panatropes were their attempt to swim in the Orthophonic pool, and sound fine. They have reproducers with metal diaphragms and better frequency response, but the horns remain conical. So they get half the formula, but not all. For $200 you might find something like an 8-4 or 8-12 in perhaps tatty condition, but which would blow this one into the weeds.

Valencia perhaps?

Photo from Wakeman's Brunswick book, p. 245

PeterF wrote:The Brunswick non-electric Panatropes were their attempt to swim in the Orthophonic pool, and sound fine. They have reproducers with metal diaphragms and better frequency response, but the horns remain conical. So they get half the formula, but not all. For $200 you might find something like an 8-4 or 8-12 in perhaps tatty condition, but which would blow this one into the weeds.

I would agree, Peter, that I might eke a bit more frequency response from an Orthophonic, but I'm looking as well at the scarcity of the Panatropes in general, at least around these parts. I've owned dozens of Orthophonics and simply want a different machine to tinker with as well as one within reasonable driving distance. I've had zero luck finding any Orthos in the $200 range and, if found, were beyond "tatty" -- more like basket cases. And, the last 8-12 I had interest in went for over $2K (I realize not the norm). Also, in that price range will come the crumbling back brackets, kibbled soundboxes, leaky horns, etc., and that is not something I want to deal with right now. But on the whole, I agree a wider frequency response might come with a Victor product of the same vintage.

Thanks to all for the help; I do believe it might just be the Madrid model. Some web crawling has indicated it likely is.

Looks like the Valencia, shown above.

No, they're not Orthophonics, but the Panatropes are still wonderful sounding machines, well worth owning. Be cautious of pot metal damage in the reproducers. Like Orthophonics, not all Panatrope reproducers are pot metal. Also, there is a steel grommet in the center of the aluminum diaphragm, to which the needle arm attaches. The dissimilar metals can cause the aluminum to oxidize in that area and allow the grommet to break away. Just something else to be aware of. I say make an offer and pick it up!

My Cortez sounds better than a Credenza in a couple of important ways. The exponential horn extends the low frequencies a bit, but at the expense of the upper mids. The folded horn makes the sound emanating from the machine less focused and more dispersed than a regular shaped horn. My Cortez has decent bass for an acoustic machine, but the sound is much more focused and direct The mids and upper mids (where most of the music resides) are sharp and clear sounding. Also acoustics tend to sound flat and muffled on an Orthophonic compared to being played on an earlier Victor machine. But on the Cortez, the 27 inch molded Spruce horn projects acoustics wonderfully. The unique thing about Brunswicks is that they are like Swiss Army knives. The early ones played every kind of disc people might want to play. The later ones were able to keep up with the Orthophonics while still presenting acoustics well. That is a distinct advantage for big cabinet machines that take up a lot of real estate in the living room.

In Los Angeles, the Cortez sells for about double the price of the Credenza. They are harder to find and more sought after.

Interesting points. Next time I see Mr. Wakeman I'll get him to weigh in on this as well and share it with you.

I find my orthophonics to be quite directional actually, with best highs focused directly level, in front of, and square to the horn opening. I've yet to bring my 8-8 indoors but anticipate the highs to be far brighter with the metal horn.

It's fun to ponder how wooden horns were the premium solution in the early days, probably for cosmetic reasons but also from the fact that they dulled the needle scratch/hiss on the early noisy recordings, but that at the end of the cycle metal horns were the desired configuration for the opposite reason. The visual aspect was removed by that time, and quieter recordings with an enhanced frequency range made metal horns the best performers.

Well, let's see...I own a Cortez, Credenza, 10-50, 8-7 and 8-8 and have them in one room. I've also got an 8-35, 10-35 and along similar lines an HMV 163. They all have their merits, plus or minus. It's rather sweeping to make the assumption that one machine is superior over any others. I waited over 20 years to find and buy a gorgeous Cortez a little over a year ago and did my usual checking and tune up. The Cortez is nice on certain things, great on acoustics but falls way short on Victor electrics. Many other things like dime store electrics and Brunswick discs themselves do sound better at times on the Cortez. The 10-50 blows both the Credenza and Cortez out of the water. All three machines are in the same room and angled in such a way that each machine's "best" comes out from the center of the room. As for the 8-8 (or 8-9, 8-35 or 10-35), these metal horn orthos certainly do have a brighter sound. It's always fun to play the same record on each and compare the sonic differences. The only thing I'll agree with is that the Cortez is not as common, so I gladly paid more than I would for a Credenza and I enjoy and appreciate them all, that's part of the fun for me.

Sean