The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I was just reading about the Edison Amberol and Blue Amberol cylinders, and the piece happened to mention that there are surviving examples of "Amberolized" Edison phonographs going back to the "Spring Motor" and "Concert" models. (SIDE NOTE: This may seem like a dumb question, but if someone saw the need to add a 4-minute attachment to the "Concert" model, does that mean Edison made (ultra-obscure) 4-minute Concert records?)

I was wondering if anyone happened to own one of these aforementioned converted phonographs, or if they could fill me in with some more information, which would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

When I acquired an early (spring 1897) Edison Spring Motor back in 1991, it had an Amberol Attachment and a Diamond B Reproducer in place. It took many years, but it's back to its original configuration today, including brass mandrel, oversize upper pulley, proper carriage with clips/adjusting screw, and Automatic Reproducer. I've seen a few other Spring Motors (some quite early like this one) with similar setups, as well as several early Homes.

The Concerts that were converted ("Amberolized") were also converted to play standard-size cylinders. I'm not aware of any 4-minute Concert cylinders offered commercially. Finding "Amberolized" Concerts is not easy. I suspect this is because collectors who find such machines usually take pains to convert them back to 5-inch capability.

George P.

Thanks for the info! It seems more logical that one may have converted the mandrel of the Concert to play standard-size cylinders.

Cheers!

Hello,

I am lucky enough to be the owner of an "amberolized" Concert machine. Indeed, when I first got it, I did not have a Concert machine, and did find the parts to convert it back to playing Concert cylinders. However, I when I was able to get another Concert machine, I reevaluated my decision, and converted it back to the way I got it! I wrote an article about it in Ron Dethlefson's book "Edison, Lambert Concert Records & Columbia Grand Records and Related Phonographs." It is on page 107. My machine came with a 2 and 4 minute attachment, with the special gear change "tool," and a J reproducer (the same as an H, but slightly modified). My J also has the green dye to indicate it was for 4 minute cylinders, just as early H reproducers were dyed green to be able to easily discern between the model C and the model H reproducers for playing cylinders.

I had the idea to record a 4 minute concert cylinder (using a concert blank) on this machine. However, I found that only a 2 minute automatic recorder will work with this configuration, due to the smaller clearance between the reproducer carriage eyelet and the cylinder itself. I have the later, more commonly seen 2 minute recorder, and a 4 minute recorder, but when placed on this machine, they dig deeply into the cylinder groove, and do not work. I did get them working with homemade "spacers" to raise the cutter up higher, but this is not what Edison intended!! For a long time I wished to simply put a Concert mandrel adaptor on the standard sized mandrel--just as you would do with a Columbia AB McDonald cylinder player. Indeed, in England, that configuration was used on Spring Motor Concert machines--so you could still play your Concert cylinders, and 2 and 4 minute standard sized cylinders!! I don't believe that conversion kit was ever sold in the United States, but never say never.......

I love my machine, and the fact that it has the unique and hard to find J reproducer as well as the D reproducer (again, the same as a C, but slightly modified--look at the article in Ron's book).

The machine was found in San Diego, about 15 years ago. It was in the same box of pieces and parts that the Devineau "Biophone" attachment that Rene Rondeau now owns. There are extra machined screw holes in the top plate of my Spring Motor Concert, and I was told that the attachment (which plays disc records on a cylinder machine) went on my Concert machine originally--although I don't see how. It fits well on a Suitcase Standard, as pictured in Antique Phonogrpahs, Gadgets, Gizmos & Gimmicks, page 57. The friend I bought the machine from said that the cabinet and lid had been painted completely with black paint. He stripped this off, along with the remains of a Bacigalupi (San Francisco dealer) decal!!! I wish that could have been saved!

Mike Sorter
Riverside, CA

Thanks, I'll check out that article. I've been designing my own phonographs for a while now (which I could probably start a whole other thread about ), and I've chosen toggle-switch rigged electric motors as my source of power. I've also designed a new kind of reproducer and carriage system, so any recorder or reproducer (including the ones of my own design) may be used.

My Concert machine is the version with the later raised-panel case. It has 2/4 gearing (the version where you just move the collar, no switch) and a slip-on mandrel for 5" cylinders. It came with two carriages, one for 5" and one for standard cylinders.

Eventually I will make up one of the extender attachments, which consists of the top shell of a Model C sized reproducer with a tube attached to the bottom, to which one then attaches the throat of another reproducer. The tube extends the reproducer downward from the 5" carriage to the right location to play a standard cylinder when the slip on mandrel is removed.

Ah, so you own an English version of the "Concert"! You're very lucky indeed!

Here is another concert. It's a project though.

That is a neat and worthy project!! That is the LATEST amberol attachment--as it has the large carrier for the Diamond B, or O, or whatever! I have a friend who had the same configuration on a Concert. This shows that Edison was still making attachments YEARS after a machine was obsolete!!

There are some pictures of the similar Concert with Diamond B in Ron Dethlefson's updated Concert book.

Mike Sorter

It has always amused me that Edison was selling Concert machines AND the conversion kits in the same catalog.