The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am very interested in recording with my Standard Model B. Beside the wax blanks, is a recording reproducer the only thing I need to record? Is there a certain recording reproducer that I should look for? This is a learning experience so, be gentle.

All you need is a two minute recorder and some blank brown wax cylinders. You'll be amazed how easy and successful you'll be in a short time. Jerry Blais

Jerry B. wrote:All you need is a two minute recorder and some blank brown wax cylinders. You'll be amazed how easy and successful you'll be in a short time. Jerry Blais

Awesome! Is there a particular 2 minute recorder I should look for or , are they all the same? Looks like they go for around $250.00 or so?

Most Edison recorders you will find will work fine with the Standard. There are some earlier recorders with glass diaphragms around, which would probably fit, and there are a few later 4 minute recorders (extremely rare, and they would have been used with a different type of blank, on a machine with 4 minute gearing).

Make sure that the diaphragm and cutter are there, and in good condition. A skilled restorer may be able to turn a slightly damaged or worn sapphire to a good spot, if necessary.

Another item you will need, if you are serious about recording, is a shaving machine. The B series phonographs no longer had a built-in shaver; and besides, most regular phonograph mainsprings are inadequate to the task of shaving. Fortunately, cylinder dictaphones were around much longer than entertainment machines, and their shaving machines are still to be found fairly frequently. Just make sure that the blade is intact, and the motor/upper works are in restorable condition.

Bill

Be warned that all the swarf is very messy. Your bedplate will be full of it.
Dave D

Lucius1958 wrote:Most Edison recorders you will find will work fine with the Standard. There are some earlier recorders with glass diaphragms around, which would probably fit, and there are a few later 4 minute recorders (extremely rare, and they would have been used with a different type of blank, on a machine with 4 minute gearing).

Make sure that the diaphragm and cutter are there, and in good condition. A skilled restorer may be able to turn a slightly damaged or worn sapphire to a good spot, if necessary.

Another item you will need, if you are serious about recording, is a shaving machine. The B series phonographs no longer had a built-in shaver; and besides, most regular phonograph mainsprings are inadequate to the task of shaving. Fortunately, cylinder dictaphones were around much longer than entertainment machines, and their shaving machines are still to be found fairly frequently. Just make sure that the blade is intact, and the motor/upper works are in restorable condition.

Bill

Thank for the insight Bill. The shavers seem a bit hard to find at a reasonable cost. Since I will be doing very few recordings, I was thinking of buying just a used mandrel and using a metal lathe to shave the cylinders. I had also thought of buying a junk Dictaphone just for the purpose of shaving.

I am in a bluegrass band that I'd like to record on cylinder. I think it would sound neat. Not sure if we can all crowd around the horn though.

Hearse Driver (driver of the hearse):

There are a couple of different approaches available
to you to use, to make cylinder recordings on your
Standard machine.

As has already been pointed out, the ingredients you
will need are:

1) a recorder
2) a recording horn
3) some blanks
4) some way to shave the blanks

Basically there are two major categories of
approaches to this that anyone may take:

1) The expensive approach which involves simply
purchasing fully restored working stuff, with
little to no attention to details involved.

2) The comprehensive approach which more involves
building a thorough understanding of many of
the underlying details, enough so that the required
items can be rebuilt.

Approach #2 takes more time, but does not need to
cost real much. Using approach #2, one can learn
the required skills to rebuild a recorder. That way
one can spend one's money on a few recorder "hulks"
commonly found on FLEA-BAY. These "hulks" usually are
missing the diaphragm, stylus holder, and stylus.
One can then learn to make one's own stylus holder,
find and mount diaphragm, purchase and mount sapphire
cutter.

Then one can roll up one's own recording horn using
plain bristol board from the art-supply store, or as
I did, just grab a couple of plain manilla file folders
and roll them up and tape them using scotch tape.
Make this horn 3 inch diameter at the large end, .625
inch diameter at the small end, and make it 29 inches long.

One may find a very reasonably-priced Dictaphone
shaver on Craigslist. Those always require much
TLC, cleaning, oiling, electrical work, etc.
The last one of those I purchased cost $25.
Got it working perfectly. Even used the old belt!

One can then use Ediphone or Dictaphone blanks to
start out with. Cut them off in the shaver
using a darning needle and shave them down to 2.196 inch
diameter for use as Edison cylinder phonograph blanks.

Or....you can also purchase ready-made brown wax blanks
from myself, Shawn Borri, or Paul Morris in the UK.

In short, there are 2 major different methods which
both lead to successfully being able to record cylinders.

Method #1 involves expensive purchases such as
from a certain amphibian character on FLEA-BAY
and other expensive things such as that.

Method #2 involves obtaining the required information
to really be able to help yourself do most or all of
the work. That leaves the purchasing to be of much
less costly items because those are the ones most
folks shy away from who do not wish to put in
the required effort to become proficient in rebuilding
the equipment to fully working order.

The choice is yours.

I personally am available to help with method #2
as it is the one I highly recommend.

Chuck

Hey Chuck. Thanks for the excellent explanation! Ive been watching some videos by a guy that goes by Victrola Guy on Youtube and have learned a lot. His videos are superb. I am a tinkerer and love getting thing to work that have been neglected for years. I can do just about anything mechanically/electrically. Ive been a machinists in a past life as well as watchmaker. I also work on clocks, tube radios, musical instruments, and now am in to phonographs. I'll be watching for a junk dictophone/ediphone to rebuild. I may have an addiction to rust!

Your instructions for making a horn for recording are excellent. I was wondering what size/material I needed to make one.

I may just pony up and buy a good working recording reproducer to start with. I think I need one good example to use to rebuild some junkers in the future should I need to.

Question; Is there enough meat left on a pre-recorded commercial cylinder to use to record if it is shaved? I see worn/noisey cylinders sell pretty cheap from time to time. I assume I need to stay with brown wax?

Chuck:
You say:
"purchase and mount sapphire cutter"
Do you have a source for these cutters? If so, please advise. I have been trying for years to locate one. I tried some outfit in England but they sold out a few years ago. I also heard (from you?) of trying to use an end of a drill bit, but it was said to be not that great. "The Compleat Talking Machine" suggests buying glass rod from a craft shop but no craft shop I have tried has anything like this.
John

You'll want to get a post 1901 recorder with the notch at the top. I'd avoid getting the pricier "Automatic" style recorder because they don't have that notch for the locating pin and your recorder won't seat properly in the carrier arm. (And no fair filing one ) Good luck with your experiments!

Martin