The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

My buddy has an Edison Standard D that is slowing while playing a record even when it is fully wound. It will only make it through about half of a 2 minute record. I assumed it was a week main spring, because the motor is clean (no grease build up). I had oiled the machine and it was working well with the exception that sometimes you had to manually get the cylinder started.

Am I correct on the mainspring assumption?

Thanks guys.

I'd make sure the half nut was adjusted correctly. If the half nut puts too much weight on the feed screw, the results are as you describe and the mechanism will slow to a stop. It's a very fine adjustment so make small increments of adjustment. Jerry Blais

Thats what I was looking for! Thank you, I will go through the machine better.

Its odd because the spring is tight, but it slows to a halt.

Does it bog down if the reproducer is not lowered?

If not, then the pressure of the half-nut may be the problem.

If it does, you might check the mandrel bearing for signs of swelling.

Bill

Remove the belt, lift (or remove) the carriage so that there is nothing exerting any pressure on the upper works.

With the gear cluster set to either 2 minute or 4 minute, simulate rotation of the mandrel at playback speed by placing the palm of your hand on the mandrel and spin it through the ends of your fingers and assure that the mandrel is spinning freely. It must rotate very freely in order to play a cylinder.

If the mandrel spins freely in both 2 minute and 4 minute settings by hand rotation as it should then you have eliminated the mandrel bearing and gear cluster as a possible culprit.

Next, reinstall the belt. The belt must NOT be too tight or too loose. With the carriage still lifted (or removed) crank up the phonograph and assure the mandrel spins easily and freely under no load with energy generated by the belt (at least 4 minutes and more in either 2/4 minute setting).

If it does then your next step is to check/adjust the carriage half nut pressure on the feed screw as mentioned previously. There must be ONLY just enough pressure to move the carriage completely across the straight edge. Assure that the feed screw threads are in fine condition as well with light lubrication on it.

Doug

I will got get the machine from him this week. I did let it free spin, it seems to bind when the reproducer is engaged. But another odd situation is that when it stops you have to manually rotate the mandrel to get it running again ( even with reproducer dis-engaged). It seems like it doesnt have enough power to keep it going, and once it stops it takes a manual start to get it doing again. I will grab it from him and report back.

Thank you all again.

Are you sure that the machine is running at the proper 160rpm and that the machine is fully lubricated? If not, That's most likely your issue. Make sure that the sapphire stylus is clean as well as the cylinders that you are trying to play and that the belt is not too tight or too loose as someone already mentioned above.

:0)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

None of the symptoms you're describing exclude the possibility of a swollen mandrel shaft bearing. In fact, they all point to it. The bearing (if it's original to the phonograph) is made of pot metal, and as it ages, it swells. The more it swells, the more drag it introduces (it's essentially clamping down on the mandrel shaft like a tightening fist). Just because you can spin the mandrel a few turns with your hand doesn't mean it's spinning freely, and if it's not spinning freely, it's going to gradually slow down until it comes to a stop, despite motor torque. An easy way to rule out the mandrel shaft bearing as a cause of the problem is simply by looking at it. If it's brass, then it's a replacement, and it's probably not what's causing the mandrel to slow down. If it's silver-gray, then it's likely the original pot metal bearing, and it's also likely the root of your problem, or at least contributing to it.

--Grant

As mentioned in my post above, if the mandrel spins freely through spinning it by hand then it's likely not the mandrel bearing. Since it seems there may be some confusion with my earlier comment I will clarify:

"If the mandrel spins freely in both 2 minute and 4 minute settings by hand rotation as it should then you have eliminated the mandrel bearing and gear cluster as a possible culprit."

The mandrel spinning freely by hand implies that the mandrel will continue to rotate 'freely' under its own inertia for a while after the hand is removed from the mandrel - much like a mandrel on earlier Edison cylinder phonographs that are supported by an end gate bearing.

Not all reproduction Edison mandrel bearings are/were made of brass. In the 1980's (and possibly before) and very early 1990's steel needle roller bearings were available for use as Edison mandrel bearings which are clearly silver in color. If the mandrel bearing was changed during that time period it may not necessarily be brass.

I've never seen a pot metal bearing in an Edison allow the mandrel to spin freely as I've described. It either seizes the mandrel good and tight or it allows only a very slight amount of rotation of the mandrel. This, of course, presumes that the original pot metal bearing has not been reamed and reused some time in the past.

Good luck with your findings and please keep us updated.

Doug

I am going to get it from him and give it another good "one over".

I will keep y'all posted on what I end up finding. Thank everyone again! It might just be the mandrel bearing.

T