The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello all

I have an opportunity to buy an HMV Monarch Senior. The only thing is, the back bracket, which would usually be nickeled, looks like it is form a Victor machine as it is painted black with gold pinstripes. Opinions? It also has a Dulcetto reproducer instead of an Exhibition but that is not a big deal. It comes with a large brass aftermarket horn. Any opinons on price, considering the back bracket? I am thinking of offering 900.

Thanks

John

If this is stateside, this is a very nice find. Are you sure you want to buy it?

Garret

Garret wrote:If this is stateside, this is a very nice find. Are you sure you want to buy it?

Garret

It is stateside, in my own town! And the guy selling it gives me a decent discount, I think I can get it for 900. So yeah, I'm pretty sure I want to buy it! I am gonna have to sell my nice Victor III though!

I have seen HMV machines with a painted and striped back bracket. Also, I did notice one minor flaw. The back bolts are regular ones, not the knurled ones. Those will have to be replaced with the correct ones.That's a bargaining chip. How does the horn fit into the elbow? Is there a nub on the horn to fit in the bayonet slot? Nice machine. I love those HMV machines.
Harvey Kravitz

The model was current from late 1907 to early 1911, but the City Road address on this example dates it no later than 1908. The correct horn would be either a Morning Glory or (from 1908) the optional fluted mahogany.

At $900 I would shake the man's hand before he changes his mind.

I second epigramophones comments. This model called the "Ionic" was third down from the top with the two above being the "Sheraton" and the "new Melba" as shown in a c1908 catalogue.
In my opinion the back bracket should be nickel but its possible that bracket has always been with the machine.
I'd grab it. Its one of my favourite models

If you suspect the back bracket has been exchanged, check to make sure the needle touches or comes very close to the spindle when the reproducer is in a playing position. Jerry Blais

To me it looks like the back bracket has been repainted too, I believe the decorations should be a bit more busy, than what is on here. I though should not really comment as I am not familiar with the HMV line of Gramophones, rather I am more familiar American Victor line.

I have one of these, and the back bracket is a dull metal plain finish. The machine came to me from a long-term non-collector owner so I have no reason to believe it was stripped or otherwise altered. I've seen them with bright nickel, and since mine is not rusty or otherwise corroded it may well be some variety of nickel plating that is not shiny like most others.

As for this one, the price is real right. I'd pick it up and worry about the back bracket later, either to leave as-is if it's pleasing, or strip/plate as desired.

Noodling around on Google looking at pics of Monarchs and other HMV machines, there are just enough of them that show up with what look like black painted brackets that I'd really hesitate calling this one inauthentic. There seem to be a wild array of filligree designs, too. Don't forget- German market and other Euro market HMV machines really seem to have a lot of variants. It's possible this one was for export, which *might* explain the Plain Jane filligree.

I think the real preliminary test is what Jerry B. says. If the needle doesn't touch the spindle or right close to it, the back bracket is a definite swap. If it lines up with the spindle like it should, I'd leave it as- is (but get the correct fasteners!) and do a lot of looking and research. Even if you decide to go with a different "more authentic" back bracket, I'd keep this one with the machine because with HMVs and other Euro machines... you just never know.