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So I've got a stack of Berliner records, way more than I want to keep around and I would like to listen to them to figure out which ones to keep. I also have a (secondhand) turntable from Esoteric Sound, essentially a modified Technics SL-BD22 with an additional dial for a large range of speeds. Issue I'm having is it came with a Stanton L500AL P-mount cartridge, with a stanton D5127 stylus (2.7 mil I think), and it sounds good on the newer records, like the slightly newer 7" columbias and victors, but it sounds terrible on the Berliners...

Are the Berliners unique in groove size or do I need to put more weight on the needle? I understand the quality isn't there to begin with, but this seemed excessively bad. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

It usually will depend on the actual record and the condition. These Berliner discs can vary a lot and therefore should be tested with different styli. To my years of experience, there is no hard evidence that early records will usually play better with wider styli. Not seldomly, it can be the opposite. But again, that's an individual case.

If you have a near mint Berliner, it may play better with a wider needle (3.5 mil), but a regularly played record may do better with a 3 mil. The original Stanton D5127 is indeed 2.7 mil and usually will be too small. Again: exceptions very possible!

I usually buy 3 mil needles from one of the usual eBay suppliers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281235529318

For other sizes, you can find Stanton styli here: http://www.esotericsound.com/CartStyli.htm

The D5135EJ 3.5 mil stylus would be an option too, but at $150 it is a certain investment to make. I usually buy a Shure compatible stylus from national eBay supplier and transplant the cantilever tip myself on a Stanton.

Aside from a different stylus, a different equalization can be quite helpful too.

The grooves are not that far off from a standard 78 - if anything, maybe slightly narrower to fit more music onto a 7" disc. I think you're right about the quality not necessarily being there to begin with though, and certainly the volume will be less than a larger record. And since you have a variable speed turntable, make sure you aren't playing them too fast, they would certainly sound "off" at 78 rpm...

thatonejohn wrote:So I've got a stack of Berliner records, way more than I want to keep around

One of the most welcome thread intros that I have read in quite some time.

If you are interested in transferring them to a digital format, there is a lot you can do to fix the noise by way of equalization in a free program such as audacity. From what I've found a wider stylus is beneficial to producing better sound quality as the grooves of a 78 rpm are much wider, and Berliners seem to have a similarly wide groove size. There are also preamp equalizers you can buy that will equalize the record to the proper equalization for regular playing. Acoustic recordings had a "flat" equalization, and anything below 200 hz and above 6000 hz can be muted entirely since that is the maximum range for acoustic recordings, and it will cut out about half of the hiss from the record.

The following link helped me greatly:

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/78rpm_playback_curves


-Stephen

I really like the 'Frestore' program that someone at the 78 Rpm Collectors Community has created and made available for download (free.) Lots of preset curves for various record types and and an EQ turnover function that you can listen to in real time, as you adjust it, for as long as you like, unlike Audacity's too short preview function. That program, along with Click Repair, have been very useful for me for needle dropping. Audacity has it's uses, too.

bfinan11 wrote:The grooves are not that far off from a standard 78 - if anything, maybe slightly narrower to fit more music onto a 7" disc. I think you're right about the quality not necessarily being there to begin with though, and certainly the volume will be less than a larger record. And since you have a variable speed turntable, make sure you aren't playing them too fast, they would certainly sound "off" at 78 rpm...

For those of you that do not have a variable speed turntable, you can transcribe a Berliner at 78 rpm to a digital file and then slow it down with the Audacity software.

WDC wrote:If you have a near mint Berliner, it may play better with a wider needle (3.5 mil), but a regularly played record may do better with a 3 mil. The original Stanton D5127 is indeed 2.7 mil and usually will be too small. Again: exceptions very possible!

I usually buy 3 mil needles from one of the usual eBay suppliers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281235529318

The D5135EJ 3.5 mil stylus would be an option too, but at $150 it is a certain investment to make. I usually buy a Shure compatible stylus from national eBay supplier and transplant the cantilever tip myself on a Stanton.

Looks like I'll have to pick up a 3 mil, thanks for the link! The 3.5 mil and 8 mil would definitely be an investment (I also have some old Pathé records that could use it)