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I finally got my case back from being repaired and started to play my fireside model A. When someone is singing it's like they're really cold, cause of fast fluttering and I can't seem to pintpoint where it's coming from. Any thoughts?

Also, I was thinking of getting my model S reproducer rebuilt that came with the standard F I got off the forum. I know they're are issues with pot metal etc, so looking for someone to send it off to!

And maybe a 3rd question. I would like to add another machine to the collection, with Father's Day coming up I got asked the question...what would I like. Well I'm trying to think of something. I'd like to have a disc player that's not forward mount, or maybe even another edison or Columbia. Anyone have any knowledge of some for sale for good prices? I don't want to break the bank, but I do have lots of items I could put with cash for the right machine if it's expensive! From ww2 guns and collectibles to radios and Phonos! 3rd question might be silly,...lol

EdisonWizard wrote:When someone is singing it's like they're really cold, cause of fast fluttering and I can't seem to pintpoint where it's coming from. Any thoughts?

This has been a long time nuisance to many collectors, including me, for cylinder phonographs. I have spent countless hours taking motors apart, examining parts looking for the culprit to the annoying flutter.

In almost all instances I pinpointed the primary cause as being with the governor. And specifically, the governor friction disc being warped or otherwise not spinning absolutely 'true'.

Obviously, there can be other contributing causes such as the belt tensioner pulley, governor weights mismatched, etc. But look at the governor friction disc.

Remove the drive belt and rotate the governor by hand and examine the friction disc rotation. It should rotate true with zero warp (or wobble).

The Fireside uses a fairly common governor so the easiest fix for you is to try swapping the governor out with another that has a true running friction disc with all else in good functioning condition on it.

Also assure that the belt condition, its tension on the pulleys and the tensioner pulley itself are in good, smooth running condition. But in most instances, I've found that the playback flutter as you've described it indicates a problem with the governor and governor friction disc.

Doug

FellowCollector wrote:

EdisonWizard wrote:When someone is singing it's like they're really cold, cause of fast fluttering and I can't seem to pintpoint where it's coming from. Any thoughts?

This has been a long time nuisance to many collectors, including me, for cylinder phonographs. I have spent countless hours taking motors apart, examining parts looking for the culprit to the annoying flutter.

In almost all instances I pinpointed the primary cause as being with the governor. And specifically, the governor friction disc being warped or otherwise not spinning absolutely 'true'.

Obviously, there can be other contributing causes such as the belt tensioner pulley, governor weights mismatched, etc. But look at the governor friction disc.

Remove the drive belt and rotate the governor by hand and examine the friction disc rotation. It should rotate true with zero warp (or wobble).

The Fireside uses a fairly common governor so the easiest fix for you is to try swapping the governor out with another that has a true running friction disc with all else in good functioning condition on it.

Also assure that the belt condition, its tension on the pulleys and the tensioner pulley itself are in good, smooth running condition. But in most instances, I've found that the playback flutter as you've described it indicates a problem with the governor and governor friction disc.

Doug

Thanks Doug, I'm going to look into this. I was thinking along the lines of the governor since it's so fast, but when watching it I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I never thought of checking out the disc, I'm going to try that this afternoon.

There are a few other things to look at as well. The felt pads may be so full of dried oil that you can't get them to hold fresh oil. The surface will have become glazed and may not be sliding properly on the friction disc. This is especially true if there are any irregularities in the contact face of the friction disc. I recently had a major headache with my Amberola V. On startup, the governor would shudder severely. Although I could get it to settle down, it would not do so on its own. I tried everything I could think of. It would work well for a few days but would soon fail again. I was on the verge of tearing out what hair I have left when I took a really close look at the friction disc face and the pads. The friction disc face had several concentric rings worn into it and a corroded spot where the brake pad had been against it for many years of disuse. The mark was actually a number of pits in the brass with slightly raised edges. The pads were very hard and would not soak up oil. Both had a hard, glazed spot at the contact point.
I removed the yoke with the pads and soaked the assembley in naphtha for a day, then scraped the hard spots off with the edge of a knife and soaked them or another day or so. They came out clean,soft and absorbant.
To cure the problem with the friction disc, I took the governot apart and chucked up the disc section in my drill press. I I used wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around a popsicle stick so I could it flat against the disc surface. I started with 250 grit and progressed to 400,600 then 800 for final polishing. There were still 3 or 4 tiny pits remaining but I felt that they were inconsequential.
I also lined up the springs/weights and saw that none were deformed and all matched. If the springs had not matched, I would have replaced all 3.
Anyway, after reassembly it works like a charm. The pads hold oil and the V starts up correctly every time.

Hope this helps,

Jim

phonojim wrote:There are a few other things to look at as well. The felt pads may be so full of dried oil that you can't get them to hold fresh oil. The surface will have become glazed and may not be sliding properly on the friction disc. This is especially true if there are any irregularities in the contact face of the friction disc. I recently had a major headache with my Amberola V. On startup, the governor would shudder severely. Although I could get it to settle down, it would not do so on its own. I tried everything I could think of. It would work well for a few days but would soon fail again. I was on the verge of tearing out what hair I have left when I took a really close look at the friction disc face and the pads. The friction disc face had several concentric rings worn into it and a corroded spot where the brake pad had been against it for many years of disuse. The mark was actually a number of pits in the brass with slightly raised edges. The pads were very hard and would not soak up oil. Both had a hard, glazed spot at the contact point.
I removed the yoke with the pads and soaked the assembley in naphtha for a day, then scraped the hard spots off with the edge of a knife and soaked them or another day or so. They came out clean,soft and absorbant.
To cure the problem with the friction disc, I took the governot apart and chucked up the disc section in my drill press. I I used wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around a popsicle stick so I could it flat against the disc surface. I started with 250 grit and progressed to 400,600 then 800 for final polishing. There were still 3 or 4 tiny pits remaining but I felt that they were inconsequential.
I also lined up the springs/weights and saw that none were deformed and all matched. If the springs had not matched, I would have replaced all 3.
Anyway, after reassembly it works like a charm. The pads hold oil and the V starts up correctly every time.

Hope this helps,

Jim

Thanks! When I get a day off I'll finally look into it. It's hard during the week with a baby lol