The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Until now I have assumed that my Columbia Type Q Graphophone (serial 647122) dated from 1901 or just possibly the last months of 1900. This is on the grounds that the patent lists on the cover and on the guide-rod stanchion both end with the patent of March 1897, whereas some Qs undoubtedly exist which include the August and December 1901 patents in both lists; I have presumed that these would have been added fairly soon after they were granted. A circular sticker on the back of the cover, mentioning the Paris Exposition of 1900, gives me a post quem date. On this machine the right-hand end of the governor is supported by a triangular stanchion screwed to the metal base-plate; I understand that in later Qs this was replaced by a horizontal cage mounted on the inner plate of the motor.

However, yesterday I noticed an old posting which stated that if 'New York and London' appears under the company's name in the bottom right-hand corner of the banner on the lid the machine cannot be earlier than 1903. Is this correct? My banner reads COLUMBIA GRAPHOPHONE CO. NEW YORK. LONDON. PARIS. BERLIN.

Oliver Mundy.

Just based on your pictures, the lid looks to be refinished and the decal appears to be a reproduction, so if it is then the decal may not be reliable...

Oliver,

Maybe it's a difference between monitors, but your lid and decal look original to me. Your decal is also a relatively short-lived version which was used in 1901-early 1902. (There's an article in the September 2016 issue of The Antique Phonograph where all known cylinder Graphophone decals are illustrated.) I think your dating of your Q is reasonably accurate. Probably not 1900, but 1901/02.

George P.

Decal looks original to my eyes (?)

I thought the amount of reflection on the lid in the 1st and 4th pics gave the appearance of refinishing, but what do I know?

These Columbia Q's were made until 1903, when the later one came out. They have the black bedplate with striping, filigree key, and horizontal governor mounting on the right side of the motor plate.. There is a possibility that the lid was what was available that day at the factory. A lot of phonograph companies followed that same practice. Or, maybe the lid was swapped. I noticed on the right side of the mandrel, it looks like the circular tag is missing, but hard to tell. Other than that, it looks like a nice, original machine.
Harvey Kravitz

Thank you all for your replies. I do believe that the decal on the cover is original, although I have not had the opportunity to compare it with any other examples and so cannot speak with confidence. It is true that the colours are quite bright, and this may account for Curt's concern, but the decal has a number of scratches and abrasions which my simple camera could not capture.

Another possibility, of course, and one which I had already considered, is that the lid has been cannibalised from another machine as Harvey has suggested. In this event it would not matter whether the decal was genuine or not, since the decal would be equally valueless as evidence for dating in either case. This was why I emphasised that the patent dates on the stanchion, which surely nobody would ever have had any reason to replace, match those on the lid.

Does the serial number not tell us anything? I have read somewhere that the numbers on Qs are all of six digits, the earliest beginning with 3 and the latest with 9. If this is correct, and assuming that the numbers ran sequentially, my No. 647122 would fall near the middle of the production run, and this would seem to be consistent with the date of 1901–02 which seems to have the majority vote.

Oliver Mundy.