The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I've only just started getting into talking machines, so don't know much about them, particularly external horn models. I'm hoping someone can identify the machine in this picture for me. The label on the side says "Disc Gramophone", but that's all I can read.



Thanks,
Andy

That's a Columbia "AJ". It is the second style AJ introduced in 1903. It originally cost $20.

The first style, introduced in 1901, has a crank vertically situated on the top. The case looks different for the 1st style.

There is a 3rd style too that came out in 1904. It has a case also much different from the second style.

Steve

Actually, the first style looks similar to the 2nd, but the crank is on top in the first style. I didn't look at the picture I have closely enough..

Andy FitzGibbon wrote:I've only just started getting into talking machines, so don't know much about them, particularly external horn models. I'm hoping someone can identify the machine in this picture for me. The label on the side says "Disc Gramophone", but that's all I can read.

Thanks,
Andy

Hi Andy,

The logo on the side of the AJ says "Disc Graphophone" not Gramophone. The photo is an interesting window to a century ago. The guy look very proud of his little machine! Looks like he has the winder in his hand at the back of the machine?

Sidewinder wrote:

Andy FitzGibbon wrote:I've only just started getting into talking machines, so don't know much about them, particularly external horn models. I'm hoping someone can identify the machine in this picture for me. The label on the side says "Disc Gramophone", but that's all I can read.

Thanks,
Andy

Hi Andy,

The logo on the side of the AJ says "Disc Graphophone" not Gramophone. The photo is an interesting window to a century ago. The guy look very proud of his little machine! Looks like he has the winder in his hand at the back of the machine?

Although the term 'Gramophone' has become generic in countries of the British Empire, in the US the term specifically refers to products of the Berliner Gram-O-Phone Company -- the corporate predecessor of the Victor Talking Machine Company. In the US, the term is archaic (besides being brand-specific) and hasn't been applied to a product since before 1901.

'Graphophone' refers specifically to products of the American Graphophone Company and its corporate successors (i.e., Columbia Phonograph Co., General). Even American Graphophone/Columbia gradually phased out use of the term, especially after the company was restructured as the Coumbia Phonograph Co., Gen'l.

'Phonograph' (with a capital 'P') would refer to the products developed by Thomas Edison in his various corporate structures and roles. 'phonograph' (with a lower-case 'p') implies a generic use of the term much in the way that 'gramophone' means any record player in greater Britain.

These name distinctions were extremely important in the earliest years of the industry 1886-1910.

An excellent resource to learn about the hobby is the series of books by George Paul and Tim Fabrizio, i.e. The Talking Machine: An Illustrated Compendium, Discovering Antique Phonographs 1877-1929, and others, published by Schiffer Publishing. These have excellent photographs and detailed, reliable text explaining the history of the industry. [Shameless plug for George and Breezy here!]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I think if I had looked closer, I would have seen that it said "Graphophone"- but as soon as my brain saw anything close to "gramophone" I guess it shut off.
The gent with the Graphophone is Neal Hammons. I cropped out the rest of the photo so it could be enlarged to show more detail, but here is the original:



Neal's brother Pete is holding the fiddle, and his brother Paris is holding the rifle. As I recall, the photo was taken about 1905, at one of the men's homes along the Williams River in Pocahontas Co., WV.
Back to the Graphophone- what is an approximate price range for one of these machines?
Thanks,
Andy

I believe Pete is holding a viola. It is entirely too big to be a violin/fiddle. The bridge is unusual as well.

JohnM wrote:
An excellent resource to learn about the hobby is the series of books by George Paul and Tim Fabrizio, i.e. The Talking Machine: An Illustrated Compendium, Discovering Antique Phonographs 1877-1929, and others, published by Schiffer Publishing. These have excellent photographs and detailed, reliable text explaining the history of the industry. [Shameless plug for George and Breezy here!]

John,

You're a prince!

George P.

Not a "prince", but I am 'The Duke of Prunes' as my friend Ray Collins once dubbed me (Ray was the original lead vocalist for the Mothers of Invention if anyone knows their Zappa).

JohnM wrote:I believe Pete is holding a viola. It is entirely too big to be a violin/fiddle. The bridge is unusual as well.

John,
The fiddle does look large. Part of that is that the Hammonses were all small men. Here are a few photos of other family members with fiddles:

Burl Hammons, photo ca. 1969 (son of Paris)


Edden Hammons, photo ca. 1945 (brother of Pete, Paris, and Neal)


"Crooked Neck John" Hammons, photo ca. 1858 (uncle of Pete, Paris, Neal and Edden)


Additionally, I seen a lot of cheap factory fiddles of the period (which is what the Hammonses had access to, and would have been able to afford) that are a bit oversized. I don't think these were intentional, but rather were due to sloppy workmanship and variation in patterns. The factories in Germany and Czechoslovakia that were cranking these instruments out were not too concerned with accurate workmanship.
A friend of mine has a much better copy of the photo, but we've still not been able to determine for sure what's going on around the fiddle's bridge. I can't tell if it's some sort of tone attachment, or if there is just a heart shape painted on the fiddle's top.
Andy