The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

There has likely been discussion of this subject but I can't seem to zero in on it, so here it is again.

Edison governors seemed to have evolved over time with the later ones eliminating the set/anchor screw on the collar at the stationary end of the governor spring assembly, instead adding a collar secured about mid shaft with a wire spring connecting the collar to the formerly stationary end spring assembly.

Why was this done? When did these new governors start showing up? This modification shows up on disc and cylinder machines. Did they all the sudden decide to do this across all Edison machines or was it gradually introduced on certain models?

Thanks!

Try this thread: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=19313

The governors used on Edison Standard cylinder
machines came in both varieties as far as I know.
Others here may be able to pinpoint the various
times when different kinds were used.

I've tried both kinds of governors, namely the solid and the kind with the wire spring.
Some time ago when I was working all the warble
out of one of my machines, I ended up swapping
around governor parts to use the thickest and the truest
of all the round plates, along with the best set of
springs and weights. That is one of the "solid"
governors without the wire spring and the 2nd collar.

As far as what I can tell, they added the wire spring
and the 2nd collar in an attempt to add some damping.
I personally am not at all sure that this situation
ends up improving things, however.

I feel that there's a very real possibility that
the wire spring creates an opportunity for an
oscillation, which if allowed to build up, could
actually add to the tendency for warble.

When that happens, the problem that the spring
was put there to solve, actually gets much worse.

This is a governor off a Triumph, I believe. It has the wire spring 'stabilizer'. The Triumph series ended in 1913. Could be from a different model??

I am not well enough versed in what all the different model Edison cylinder phonograph governors all look like,
enough to tell what model phonograph that one might be
for.

All I know for sure is that sometimes the solid
kind was used, and at other times the kind shown
in your picture with the dampening wire spring was
used.

Note from the picture that the collar on the end does
have the hole for s setscrew. I believe that the wire
spring is soldered or brazed on. It would therefore
be easy enough to convert a damped type to a non-damped
type.

Again, I feel that the addition of the damping spring can, in some cases, exacerbate instead of mitigate
the warble.

My feeling is that governor warble is difficult enough
to remedy without adding a nice little mechanical
oscillator which can create warble any darn time
it gets a notion to...

This opinion is based upon my finding that the cure
I found for a warbly governor I had was to use
the best parts with the truest plate, and no wire
spring dampener.

One thing that really irritates me about these
Edison cylinder phonograph governors is how darn thin
that round brass plate is. Anyone who stops the machine
with any more than a very light touch on the speed
control start/stop lever can very easily bend that
thin brass plate. The slightest bend or warping of
that plate will make the governor warble. I think
that they should have made those plates a bit thicker
so they can not be so easily warped, bent, damaged.

I think that a good share of old machines found in
the wild have that plate at least partially bent
from rough handling of the run/stop lever.

Overall kind of a poor and very cheap design.
But it is one we have to live with now some 120
years later, and make the best of.

Thanks for the information Chuck. I never thought about the round plate being slightly bent. How do you true them up or is that not attainable. I always was checking the weights or the end pins. I have found several end pins bent a small amount that adds to the noise and speed. I have several weights that were loose also that add to the bad running. Tom

There's a long list of defects which can cause
any governor of this general type to warble.

Ideally, all weights and springs should be exactly identical. Something as seemingly minor as having
one weight sticking out even a tiny bit farther than
the others will cause warble.

Bent shafts or pivot pin ends can cause warble.
Bent or warped plate can cause warble.

I've never yet attempted to true a bent plate.
It might be possible to take a small face-cut using
a lathe. But they are usually so thin that there's not
hardly enough extra metal on them to cut off in order to
find a flat surface.

It would be interesting to make some new and thicker
plates.