The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I thought I would share my horror story about a recent purchase from Sweden. There was an ebay auction for a Rare Bettini Brown wax cylinder on ebay. It had a Buy it now of $250 but said sales only to the EU... I sent a message seeing if it were possible to sell to the US and the seller agreed. She actually sent me an email outside of ebay and we were able to come to an agreement saving the ebay fees....first error. She explained that she was liquidating her fathers collection and had experience shipping cylinders records. None the less I gave specific instructions on how to pack, with support inside the record and no movement and then double box emphasizing the fragility of the piece. She said she understood. She shipped and gave me a tracking number and then the item sat in Sweden for over a week and a half stating it was delayed for review. Finally it showed that it had left the country and I kept a look out for the package from the USPS. Imagine my horror and dismay when I receive a cylindrical package 4 inches in diameter and 8 inches long...I picked it up and it sounded like a rattle. I took pictures of the unopened package, then the inside packing etc. The record is in thousand pieces...likely literally! I contracted her and she said it wasn't packed that way when shipped...That there was a large box around this inner cylinder...that she wasn't that stupid....She accused me of switching the record and making it up...she claimed the postal service must have taken this out of the box and shipped it this way...I asked her to file an insurance claim... but she must not have got insurance. Next she offered me more cylinders (not Bettini) and a Pathé reproducer at a "discount" to make up for this. So far no refund.... I have started a grievance with PayPal. We will see where it ends up. I have attached pics for you to cry over...a screen shot of the original auction plus what I received. Beware if bidding on items from this seller.

Sometimes it just feels good to vent a little!

Gregg Cline

Ouch. I feel your pain.

I contracted her and she said it wasn't packed that way when shipped...That there was a large box around this inner cylinder...

Judging by the customs label firmly attached to the small cylindrical package, I find her claim that it was repacked to be more than a little dubious.

Though not on the same level, I'm reminded of a scarce antique bottle I bought on eBay France a couple of years ago for $70. The seller wrapped some thin cardboard around it, taped it up, labeled it, and dropped it in the mail. You can imagine the outcome. Fortunately eBay agreed that it was entirely inappropriate packaging and I got my money back.

I hope you get a refund, but it remains a tragedy when something that rare is lost forever.

That is terrible. What a loss as the cylinder appeared to be in decent playing condition from the picture. Very sorry to hear of this happening.

Doug

Ouch. Sadly, you'd already have your money back if you'd gone through eBay (I know, doesn't help much now!)

Reminds me about the time I received a dozen or so Pathé cylinders from a seller in France. I sent detailed packing instructions (in French). About 2 months later, I got a box containing a plastic shopping bag full of open cylinder boxes and shards of wax. This is why I much prefer to buy and sell here or at the shows, if at all possible!

I think that it may make sense to have a folder on this forum, and on the Antique Phonograph Society site, that offers instructions of packing correctly phonographs, records, etc, with videos and/or photos, along with photos of such poorly done packing and broken results. This repository could be sent as links to sellers so they see the right way to pack and the negative outcomes of bad packing. This will be an important contribution to our collective efforts to be stewards of these fragile artifacts.

Anil

Slaton wrote:I think that it may make sense to have a folder on this forum, and on the Antique Phonograph Society site, that offers instructions of packing correctly phonographs, records, etc, with videos and/or photos, along with photos of such poorly done packing and broken results. This repository could be sent as links to sellers so they see the right way to pack and the negative outcomes of bad packing. This will be an important contribution to our collective efforts to be stewards of these fragile artifacts.

Anil

I agree. It would be very helpful for some (I think) to see a pictorial guide, in addition to textual instructions.

I wonder also if it's practical to request images from a seller of the packaged item before it's shipped?

Best,
Fran

I definitely feel for you. I'd be heartsick.
On an eBay auction I once won a Bessie Tucker blues record on the Victor 38000 series in E+ condition, only to have it arrive in 3 pieces because it was shipped in a flimsy media mail-type envelope ugh.
This, after I had confirmed with the seller that it would be boxed and packed properly.
At least I got my money refunded.
Fortunately, that's the only time a record arrived broken.

Steven

Slaton wrote:I think that it may make sense to have a folder on this forum, and on the Antique Phonograph Society site, that offers instructions of packing correctly phonographs, records, etc, with videos and/or photos, along with photos of such poorly done packing and broken results. This repository could be sent as links to sellers so they see the right way to pack and the negative outcomes of bad packing. This will be an important contribution to our collective efforts to be stewards of these fragile artifacts.

Anil

My father, Larry Hawes, has purchased items through regular and international mail for decades. One very prominent collector once shipped my father horns wrapped in women's jeans via Greyhound bus..In those days (1970's) the driver actually made sure they were ok after every stop. Sadly, days gone by as I think that attention to shipping would be rare today. I would hope that the collector has since learned different methods of packing, which is the most important part. By the way, the jeans that remained were left at the station.

Larry has done several YouTube videos over the years to illustrate, actually show step by step, how to ship, especially internationally. These videos are actually very easy to do and can save you days of anticipation and heartache..Sadly, I am not sure this would have helped here as it sounds like more like someone wasn't listening, for whatever reason, and went on the cheap - WHICH ARE THE MOST COMMON REASON WHY SHIPPING VERY FRAGILE ITEMS FAIL.

In my experience the best "shippers" by a fair margin would be, of course my father, Jalal Aro (amazing) and Kurt Nauck.

I would love to see a dedicated string or area that would pay particular attention to packing and shipping. There are tricks of the trade that Im sure we can all benefit from given the significant experience of everyone on the forum. So everyone, tell us what has worked for you and especially those who have purchased items from long distances wherein the soonest to receive an extremely fragile item would be 2 to 5 days.

Ben Hawes

I hate getting shipping boxes that are full of styrofoam peanuts.

Too bad about the cylinder. I'd save the shards anyway. Maybe someone like the Cylinder Doctor could still repair it someday.

Wolfe wrote:I hate getting shipping boxes that are full of styrofoam peanuts.

Peanuts are fine if you pour them into plastic grocery bags & tie then shut. Then you have nice packing units that don't move around.