The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

First post on this forum. See my profile for my record collecting history. Since retiring in May 2018 I have started spending more time with my record collection and decided to actually get a good player. I have done the multiple stylus sizes and digitized restorations in my computer for years, but decided to get an actual wind up machine to hear "how they ought to be heard."
I bought a rather beat up Victor VV 4-40 over the summer, and got a new spring put in and an adjusted Orthophonic sound box put on. But it wasn't very impressive, and played acousticals better than electrics. So I traded it to a guy who was working on my house.
But then, in a small mining town, in a far corner of the town's pawn shop, I ran into the Columbia 800 Viva-Tonal. It was the holy grail for me, purported to have a balanced tone, etc. I played a couple of records on it and bought it for $350 plus an old guitar I had in trade. (He had wanted $950). It was a monster to get home over winding mountain roads! The thing must weigh over 200 lbs!
I re-sealed the two horns, and got Tim Fabrizio to look over the reproducer and adjust it. When everything was put back together, I gave the 800 a good listen. It has the overall tone of a big radio phono unit from the late 40s. It lacks the booming bass of an old tube unit (but has a full sound I've never heard in a wind up), but the vocal clarity is amazing, and it seems to be able to get the consonants and the drums and other high end sounds without emphasizing scratch. The VV 4-40 was downright tinny in comparison. Anything from the electric 20s, including old Banner, Romeo, Actuelle, etc. electrics, sound splendid, and give my computer-engineered efforts a run for their money. I'm really enjoying that enormous thing!

Amazing story. You found yours in a obscure mining town, I got mine in a small town rural basement of a veterinarian owner. His dad had purchased it in the days when no electric was available. The sound to me is very good. I had a credenza for many years before passing it on to someone else. It was pretty decent but there is a subtle difference between the two. I find the Columbia a little less prone to harsh sounding treble and I also like the fact that often a record that would be way too loud on the Victor can now be played with full tone needles without straining the ears.

Way back I knew that while the range of sound might be somewhat less on the mechanical version, it far exceeds the electrical reproduction so far as projection of the instruments or vocals go. The electrical machines sort of put all the things on the same level where the acoustic method projects the featured sounds or vocals out in front giving a more realistic effect. I am sure your enjoying it, sounds like you have huge number of selections to pick from. Hopefully you have a you tube account to display some of them?

Larry

I have an 810 that I got recently from forum member marcapra. At the same time I got a Credenza from forum member Peter F.

Both are great machines but the more I use and analyze them the 810 is the winner, I think. I find no auto stop to be sort of annoying, though. And damn... that thing is HUUUUGE....

I agree that the sound curve of the Viva-Tonal 800 seems uniquely tuned to the records of the era. I played a 1957 pop tune on it (colored dog RCA) and found it sounded brittle and harsh, even with a "soft" needle. But when I was testing the thing out in that little mining town, one of the discs I tried was a Harmony acoustic of "Side By Side" with a vocal by Irving Kaufman. His voice jumped right out at me, sounding almost electric, as though he was standing between me and the 800. Not a situation I would volunteer for very often!
As far as the early electrics go, the Johnny Marvin / Nat Shilkret "Me and My Shadow" revealed all the consonants and vocal detail that the computer has a hard time extracting. That disc has unusually deep, thundering bass thru the software, but only has a nice mellow fullness on the 800. An ok tradeoff in my mind.
BTW I had the occasion to meet Irving Kaufman up in Idyllwild, above Palm Springs, back in 1974. He showed me all his memorabilia on the walls of his restaurant, and even played a couple of records for me. I had no idea who he was until years later. He's on so many of my discs (with pseudonyms as often as not) that he should have changed his name to "with vocal chorus."

Cool post. Wheres the pics though?

Here are some photos of the Columbia 800 Viva-Tonal

I also have a Columbia Viva-Tonal 800 phono, and yes George they are Huuuuuggggge and heavy! they make a Credenza look petite. I have a rare "Paul Whiteman model" 800, which few of you have probably seen in person. What is the Paul Whiteman model? The cabinet is colorfully decorated like the Paul Whiteman Viva-tonal sleeves and labels. Mine has a shut-off mechanism, which I believe were put on late production models. I believe the early editions of the 800 and 810 did not come with shut-off mechanisms, but I have no corroborating evidence to prove this. I don't have any pics to share tonight, so I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow. Marc.

Here is a clip of my old Viva-Tonal 810, now George's, playing the Columbia Viva-Tonal record of "Broadway Melody":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9tPPWfPLpg

Is it bigger than a Brunswick Cortez? It looks smaller, but the photo is small.

My 810

George, that is a beauty--if only I had room for such a beast!

Steven