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Hello,
I am curious to know what one of these rare 1890's Edison Class M phonographs is worth today. I've never seen one turn up on Ebay. In fact I have never had the pleasure of even seeing one in person. I imagine that they change hands quietly between well established collectors. Any thoughts!
Pete

That's a good question. It's pretty high on my list of phonographs I would like to own someday. I have only seen one part of a Class M on eBay. It was the governor guard, (not sure about the proper terminology) and if I remember correctly sold somewhere in the $500 range. I don't even think the actual governor weights or springs were included. I think it was just the original circular guard.

I will be interested to see what others have to say about the rarity and value of these beauties.

It's just a complete guess, but I think you'd be looking at maybe $25-30,000 for a fairly decent example?? Whether I'm completely off the mark though is another story lol.
I guess George could answer the rarity question best. I think they were available for around 15 yrs so they must have sold quite a few in that time, but I would imagine survival rates wouldn't be too high due to batteries being lost or broken & the machine being rendered useless.

I think everyone's comments are pretty much in the ballpark. The last two Class Ms I've seen sell were Charley Hummel's at two Wayne shows 6-10 years ago, about 2 or 3 years apart. Of course, the market is now in a low cycle, so what one might have to pay these days might be lower - - if an owner could be convinced to sell now. There's almost always a Class M for sale at Union; sometimes a couple.

There are a surprising number of Class Ms around. I haven't kept a record of serial numbers, but I've seen North American examples with numbers over 10,000. That's a reasonably high production for 1888-1894. The National Phonograph Company models seem to have started at around No. 23,000 (again - this is based solely on my own observations & memory) but I don't recall seeing one marked above the 28,000 range, so I'm guessing around 5000-6000 of the National Phono Co models - - but remember that the earliest Spring Motor Phonograph used the same upper casting and apparently the serial numbers are interspersed. Estimating the total number of Class Ms produced is a bit dicey for these reasons. I'd welcome another observer's input on this - - it would make a nice research project for someone!

As for survival rate, that's another tricky proposition. I'm pretty confident that worldwide there must be at least 75 Class Ms in existence, and possibly more. But like U.S. Berliner Gramophones, most every collector seems to want one, and that drives the price. The Class M is unique in that for the period 1890 to late 1895, it was virtually the only practical talking machine available. If you're collecting machines from the 1890s, this machine is a high priority. I sold a minty Harley-Davidson Sturgis to finance a Class M back in 1993, and some of my friends thought I had lost my mind. I've never been sorry.

If I had to pare down my collection to only 2 machines, the Class M would be one of them!

George P.

Thanks for all the information, George.

But now you have me wondering something. If a you narrowed down your collection to 2 phonographs, the Class M would be one of them. What would be the other?

Wow!very interesting. I am surprised that there may be as many as 75 examples still surviving.When you consider that you needed a charged battery to keep them running and that they were quickly made obsolete by the inproved spring motor.

George,
Were there any changes (small or significant) made to the Class M when it became A "Victor" in 1901 or the "Balmoral" in 1906, or was it just a name change for marketing purposes?

And do you know of any Class E's that survive?

But now you have me wondering something. If a you narrowed down your collection to 2 phonographs, the Class M would be one of them. What would be the other?

Because I read more than I play records, and because I'm particularly interested in the North American period, and because of the difficulty I'd have in replacing it, the other machine would be an 1893-4 Type U Graphophone. Neither machine is a good choice for playing records (the Class M is equipped with a Standard Speaker), but they're both good cerebral vehicles.

Wow!very interesting. I am surprised that there may be as many as 75 examples still surviving.When you consider that you needed a charged battery to keep them running and that they were quickly made obsolete by the inproved spring motor.

Remember that's only an estimate from one guy. I've seen a couple dozen myself, photos of many more, and taking into account that what I DON'T know probably comprises more than what I do, I'm guessing around 75. Contributing to the Class M's survival rate would be its weight. Once in an attic, it would be far easier to simply leave it there than to "clean up." They're not all that large either, so "...let's just leave it there for now" becomes an attractive proposition rather than lifting 60 pounds and carrying it off. As for their early obsolescence, many Class Ms were probably saved due to their initial expense. A $150.00 investment in the 1890s was considerable, and perhaps this expensive machine might come in handy some day...? Besides, it's heavy...! Look how many Victrola XVIIIs survive despite their relatively low production. Why destroy such an expensive machine? Well, they're possible reasons anyway.

George,
Were there any changes (small or significant) made to the Class M when it became A "Victor" in 1901 or the "Balmoral" in 1906, or was it just a name change for marketing purposes?

And do you know of any Class E's that survive?

The Class M/Victor/Balmoral underwent similar changes over the years as seen on the Spring Motor/Triumph. These would include reproducer, style of shaver, carrier arm, end gate, mandrel, gilt decorations, etc. Naturally the North American Phono Co nickeled plate was replaced in 1896 by a smaller nickled plate for the National Phono Co, and this later became a black painted background plate consistent with the other machines in the Edison line.

I've seen a Class E at the Edison site in West Orange, but I don't recall seeing another, unless it was in a collection in California.

George P.

An interesting thread. I agree with George that there is a very surprising survival rate. I've seen quite a lot of them. The late Dave Heitz was especially enamored of them, I believe he had at least a dozen himself. Then again, we're talking about Class M's in all their various permutations. For example, Dave had the earliest Spectacle style, the North American versions, the later full-front National Phonograph Co. models, the Concert version, coin-ops including the 'Keller' and the 'Alva' etc.

I really wonder how many survive of the North American design, which is typically the most coveted?

Just for the record, there IS research underway on Edison Class M Phonographs. I just sent information and photos of my example to Stuart Miller, who wrote an article on the Edison Spectacle Phonograph in the last issue of The Sound Box. His email address is [email protected]. I encourage other owners to do likewise, and perhaps we can obtain more and better information on this classic Phonograph.

George P.