The “P” Word: An Unusual Edison Cylinder Phonograph
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:04 pm
For those unaware, I love the thrill of the chase. I am 30 and have been mesmerized by early audio tecnhology and accessories since age 9 and am relentless in my search for the early, the obscure, and the unusual. Today I present my latest find, one that I happened upon by chance while pursuing another desirable phonograph.
I, like other humans -especially your local antique/phono dealer- am prone to hyperbole. I have jumped to many conclusions over the years, some right, some half-right, and many wrong. I want to jump to a big conclusion with this Triumph and perhaps others here on the forum can help justify it. Today I will be using the “P-word,” so if you are easily offended by phono-arrogance, here’s your chance to jump ship.
By all appearances this is an early production Model A Triumph ( serial # 31,845) straight from the production line. Modifications to the topworks, a lack of cabinet decal, and some curious holes in the casting have lead me to believe that this might be...a Prototype (the P-word). Not necessarily a prototype machine, rather a workshop/tester phonograph for prototype 2/4 minute gearing and maybe a repeater designed by Edison employee and inventor Peter Weber (P-word 2.0).
This Triumph has a working 2/4 minute gearing attachment, consisting of a secondary feedscrew and corresponding feed nut, and tracks accurately for both thread pitches. It has a sliding feed nut assembly to switch between the two settings.
First clue: There is no decal on the cabinet. The cabinet has been entirely coated in varnish. I removed the bedplate and the varish went clear to the inside edge of the top frame. You can see sections of the original finish where the varish stuck to the bedplate when it was still wet. Also, note the grain filler and shellac is still visible under varnish with no sign of a decal being present.
Second clue: Machined and threaded holes in back of topworks casting. These holes are shifted to the left from where the final production Weber repeater worm gear stanchions are mounted. Squarish ghosts of something around the holes. Weber repeaters have architecture screwed to the front of the casting as well.... something to consider.
Third clue: Mysterious hole to the right of the front casting mounting bolt. Small squarish ghost around this hole.
Fourth clue: a somewhat rough clamp/armature that holds the 4-minute feedscrew in place. Feedscrew looks like a Type Q or Standard feedscrew but is in fact different in both thread pitch and diameter. I have compared to various Edison and Graphophone models with no matches. The 4-minute feedscrew gear, however, does appear to be a Type Q motor pulley. It has radiating etched lines that appear to indicate the measuring of teeth. James Ott, another Edison “right hand man,” was also working on 2/4-minute gearing, including gearing for Graphophones. I’d assume Edison phono works employees had Graphophone machines and parts for reference purposes.
Fifth clue: Custom cast and fitted mandrel shaft drive gear for 4-minute feedscrew. Here’s where it gets interesting. As you see below, this is a unique casting with machined or cast gear teeth. The casting has two arms with different ends that fit over the end of the mandrel shaft, which has been modified accordingly. This indicates to me a larger scale fabrication shop than your typical local machinist would have.
***Also note that the Weber repeater used a drive gear in the same location.
Sixth clue: A more intentionally designed feed nut spring assembly that features a slotted spring that allows for the sliding feed nut piece to move between 2 and 4-minute operation. The slot is perfectly cut, so sliding the feed nuts all the way back engages 4-minute and all the way to the front, 2-minute.
Seventh clue: Patent drawings from January of 1908 submitted by Peter Weber showing a nearly identical 2/4 minute gearing setup, save for the drawings having a more sophisticated “rocker” selector for each feed nut.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 932202.pdf
What do you think?
-Jake
I, like other humans -especially your local antique/phono dealer- am prone to hyperbole. I have jumped to many conclusions over the years, some right, some half-right, and many wrong. I want to jump to a big conclusion with this Triumph and perhaps others here on the forum can help justify it. Today I will be using the “P-word,” so if you are easily offended by phono-arrogance, here’s your chance to jump ship.
By all appearances this is an early production Model A Triumph ( serial # 31,845) straight from the production line. Modifications to the topworks, a lack of cabinet decal, and some curious holes in the casting have lead me to believe that this might be...a Prototype (the P-word). Not necessarily a prototype machine, rather a workshop/tester phonograph for prototype 2/4 minute gearing and maybe a repeater designed by Edison employee and inventor Peter Weber (P-word 2.0).
This Triumph has a working 2/4 minute gearing attachment, consisting of a secondary feedscrew and corresponding feed nut, and tracks accurately for both thread pitches. It has a sliding feed nut assembly to switch between the two settings.
First clue: There is no decal on the cabinet. The cabinet has been entirely coated in varnish. I removed the bedplate and the varish went clear to the inside edge of the top frame. You can see sections of the original finish where the varish stuck to the bedplate when it was still wet. Also, note the grain filler and shellac is still visible under varnish with no sign of a decal being present.
Second clue: Machined and threaded holes in back of topworks casting. These holes are shifted to the left from where the final production Weber repeater worm gear stanchions are mounted. Squarish ghosts of something around the holes. Weber repeaters have architecture screwed to the front of the casting as well.... something to consider.
Third clue: Mysterious hole to the right of the front casting mounting bolt. Small squarish ghost around this hole.
Fourth clue: a somewhat rough clamp/armature that holds the 4-minute feedscrew in place. Feedscrew looks like a Type Q or Standard feedscrew but is in fact different in both thread pitch and diameter. I have compared to various Edison and Graphophone models with no matches. The 4-minute feedscrew gear, however, does appear to be a Type Q motor pulley. It has radiating etched lines that appear to indicate the measuring of teeth. James Ott, another Edison “right hand man,” was also working on 2/4-minute gearing, including gearing for Graphophones. I’d assume Edison phono works employees had Graphophone machines and parts for reference purposes.
Fifth clue: Custom cast and fitted mandrel shaft drive gear for 4-minute feedscrew. Here’s where it gets interesting. As you see below, this is a unique casting with machined or cast gear teeth. The casting has two arms with different ends that fit over the end of the mandrel shaft, which has been modified accordingly. This indicates to me a larger scale fabrication shop than your typical local machinist would have.
***Also note that the Weber repeater used a drive gear in the same location.
Sixth clue: A more intentionally designed feed nut spring assembly that features a slotted spring that allows for the sliding feed nut piece to move between 2 and 4-minute operation. The slot is perfectly cut, so sliding the feed nuts all the way back engages 4-minute and all the way to the front, 2-minute.
Seventh clue: Patent drawings from January of 1908 submitted by Peter Weber showing a nearly identical 2/4 minute gearing setup, save for the drawings having a more sophisticated “rocker” selector for each feed nut.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 932202.pdf
What do you think?
-Jake
