The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

As many of you know I love the early Edison's including Spring Motors and have seen so many variations. As Class M phonos were converted by Edison jobbers, the details of those conversions varied over the years and jobber-to-jobber and almost anything can be found today.

A strange carriage recently came my way from Australia that originally had the early "Automatic" clips (clips missing but mounting holes are there) and locating pin (again missing but holes present) but it does NOT have - and appears to never have had - the large lug on the right side for the adjusting azimuth screw. The right side of the carriage is flawless with no evidence of said lug being ground down as some I've seen.

I'm posting some pictures of it along with a black Spring Motor carriage that does have the lug. As seen in the third picture it is slightly thicker than the normal counterpart - just thick enough that a C reproducer weight will not clear it. Someone has apparently added a model C locating pin and set screw.

I would appreciate hearing any thoughts on the origin of this carriage.

Terry Baer
St. Louis

In George Frow’s book “The Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion” on page 88 they show a good plated Class M with what appears to be the same carriage as yours. What do you think?

Rich Gordon

Mr. Gordon, That's a very late Class M without the clips so would basically be a Triumph carriage. Mine has the holes for clips and locating pin like a pre-1900 model sans lug. Thanks.

rgordon939 wrote:In George Frow’s book “The Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion” on page 88 they show a good plated Class M with what appears to be the same carriage as yours. What do you think?

Rich Gordon

Does anyone know what happened to the gold plated Class M?

Isn’t it possible that the reproducer locking screw was added at a later date as an update to the carriage? The owner of the machine may have preferred the locking screw for ease of changing reproducers. Drilling and taping the hole would leave no telltale signs of the update.

Rich Gordon

Terry, that's certainly an odd combination of early and later characteristics. Since it would have made absolutely no sense for someone to have taken a ca. 1903 Triumph carriage and drilled/tapped 4 holes for the clips, and another hole for the speaking tube locating pin, it must have happened the other direction. Someone took an early Class M carriage, had the lug that held the adjustment screw professionally ground off and filed, drilled/tapped for the set screw, added the Model C locating pin, and repainted the carriage. I can't think of any other reason for this other than "updating" it. Perhaps it was on a machine that was old dealer's stock, and this "update" made it more saleable?

George P.

Curt A wrote:

rgordon939 wrote:In George Frow’s book “The Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion” on page 88 they show a good plated Class M with what appears to be the same carriage as yours. What do you think?

Rich Gordon

Does anyone know what happened to the gold plated Class M?

I believe I saw a gold plated Class M at Charley Hummel's house. Could be wrong though, that was serious sensory overload looking at his collection of rare machines.

Andreas

alang wrote:

Curt A wrote:

rgordon939 wrote:In George Frow’s book “The Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion” on page 88 they show a good plated Class M with what appears to be the same carriage as yours. What do you think?

Rich Gordon

Does anyone know what happened to the gold plated Class M?

I believe I saw a gold plated Class M at Charley Hummel's house. Could be wrong though, that was serious sensory overload looking at his collection of rare machines.

Andreas

Not in Charley’s collection but Ray Phillips did have one, likely the one shown in Frow.

"In George Frow’s book “The Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion” on page 88 they show a good plated Class M with what appears to be the same carriage as yours. What do you think?"

Rich,

I have the very same Frow book....

All my page 88 shows is an Edison home in Black and White...No color photos at all.

What edition of the book do you have?? Mine is the 1994 edition.

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

I have the electronic IBook version.

Rich Gordon