The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Its in human nature to explore things.
To push thing a bit further.
Problem is, the only way to know when you pushed too hard,
is when you go over the Edge.
And by then, it's to late.

Apparently, the Edge, when it comes to what a No 2 Victor soundbox can take, goes somewhere before
you play an 1941 Kid Ory record with a Bagshaw Jumbo Needle on a VV-XI.
Kid Ory electrically recorded Ory's Boogie is loud and, well, Bagshaw Jumbo needles are insane to be honest.
After all the inscription on the packet reads "For those who crave the loudest".
Shoulda tipped me off, dontcha think?

These needles are almost 1 ½ times as thick as a Victor NOS Full Tone.

I actually heard the soundbox crack, halfway thru the madness.

Behold:

Evil


Left is Jumbo, right is Victor Full Tone, hard to see difference in this picture


Damage done
Parallel to the needle-bar are the two cracks in the Mica, that
Mr Ory together with Bagshaw created

I hadn’t realized that you could play a record loudly enough to break the mica...

I assume part of this is that the record is much newer than the sound-box, and it couldn’t handle the frequencies the record was producing?

— MordEth

I'm a tad curious about just how loud these things are. I have another needle that claimed to be "the loudest available" and it had a wide collar around the needle (I'll post needles later). It certainly was louder than an extra loud needle (victor or hmv or mordern)...well it was really loud, but it didn't damage the diaphragm.

An original mica diaphragm?

They do get brittle with age. Perhaps a new one could withstand what you were trying to subject it to, unless that was a newer one, in which case I'm dead wrong.

I can't quite tell from the photo, but are those the original (hard) gaskets in the sound box? If so, that may explain why the mica fractured. If clamped rigidly along the edges, as would be the case with shrunken, hardened gaskets, then only the center area of the diaphragm would be able to move back and forth to any degree, as the needle tracked the record.

Bagshaw's is still very much in business (and still making needles) and is about 10 minutes from my home. Originally they hailed from Lowell, Mass.

Out of curiosity, were the original diaphragm gaskets replaced? And if so, I wonder if the needle bar was not adjusted properly causing the mica to fracture from the sound vibrations?

Amberola, do you have contact info for Bagshaw? I might be interested in buying needles from them. Thanks in advance!

I may not be Bill, but here you go:

WH Bagshaw Co. Inc.
1 Pine Street, Box 766
Nashua, NH 03060

Toll Free: (800) 343-7467
Call NH: (603) 883-7758
Fax: (603) 882-2651

Website: whbagshaw.com

— MordEth

As an addendum, they only sell in bulk. Our MAPS group is trying to interest them in tooling up to make tungs tone needles.