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A friend brought me these cylinders in a wooden case but I am not sure what these cylinders are for. There are 4 brown wax cylinders with an indentation in the rim. There is also 1 cylinder that just has the number 601 or 109 scribed in the rim. So are they for the early Edison Class M phonograph?
Do you think the case is for use with the Edison Class M phonograph?

And finally, is there any value?

I really appreciate any information.

Blain

This type of cylinder blank is commonly referred to as a "channel rim." They were produced from 1890 until approx. 1896 (1895-1896 by Walcutt, Miller & Co.). Columbia evidently copied the format in a very short-lived black wax in 1896.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. A cracked cylinder and/or heavily molded cylinder to the point of unplayability is of virtually no value to some of us, but others might pay well to have an example - - even if unplayable.

The carrying case is an aftermarket item, but if the pegs are wooden, it is probably from the 1890s. Chances are, the cylinders and case have been together since the beginning.

Congratulations!

George P.

Blain,

Early cylinders - even in this condition - often have valuable recordings even though most machine collectors are not interested in them. They should be stored in a dry (low humidity) environment and should be kept away from people who want to shave them or play them with period equipment.

The number is a mystery until the cylinders are played. It does not match any numbering I've seen.

George is right that the case is an aftermarket product. I have two that came out of England with 1896 cylinders in them. I would be interested in knowing if you know if this case too came from England.

George is right that the value is in the eye of the beholder. I can give you a more specific assessment if you want to write me through my website: www.cps1.net.

John

phonogfp wrote:This type of cylinder blank is commonly referred to as a "channel rim." They were produced from 1890 until approx. 1896 (1895-1896 by Walcutt, Miller & Co.). Columbia evidently copied the format in a very short-lived black wax in 1896.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. A cracked cylinder and/or heavily molded cylinder to the point of unplayability is of virtually no value to some of us, but others might pay well to have an example - - even if unplayable.

The carrying case is an aftermarket item, but if the pegs are wooden, it is probably from the 1890s. Chances are, the cylinders and case have been together since the beginning.

Congratulations!

George P.

Thanks Paul. I think the pegs are solid wood, being as there is a wood screw from the case bottom up into the centre of the peg. Can I try playing these on my early Edison Model Home with a Standard Speaker reproducer?

Blain

Canuk Phonographs wrote: Can I try playing these on my early Edison Model Home with a Standard Speaker reproducer?

Blain

Hi Blain,

John Levin's skin will be crawling at your suggestion of inflicting a Standard Speaker on these early cylinders. Mine too.

First, the cylinders need to be cleaned of the mold. Running a stylus over a moldy brown wax cylinder will tend to embed the dirt/mold into the wax. If you've never successfully cleaned brown wax cylinders, these are NOT the ones to learn on.

Once clean, the 125 year-old recordings should be treated as gently as possible. That rules out period equipment - - especially the Standard Speaker, whose lateral compliance is quite poor.

My advice would be to contact John at his web site above, and arrange to send your cylinders to him for professional cleaning. John can then carefully play & digitally record them on his CPS1. John is the brown wax cylinder king, and can probably identify who made yours and when. (He's also a very nice guy.) You can get your cylinders back nice and clean, and get a digital file so you can hear them without wear to the original artifacts.

Now that I've volunteered John for all this, I hope we're still on speaking terms!

Best of luck,
George P.

I can personally attest to John's professionalism
and knowledge. John had his (then brand new) CPS-1
machine at the Union, Illinois show several years
ago when I was there to see it in action.

The demonstration of that machine playing ancient
brown wax cylinders is simply not something
which anyone can describe sufficiently well in writing!
One has to be there in person to see it and hear it!

The sound that is stored on some of those ancient
and very delicate cylinders has a quality to it
that will instantly convince anyone who hears it
that these old cylinders need to be treated with absolute
care and respect.

Saying all of the above, I would highly recommend
not attempting to play these scarce channel-rimmed
brown wax cylinders with anything but a modern
very light-weight pickup. Playing them with
a Standard Speaker will only degrade them.

Chuck

phonogfp wrote:

Canuk Phonographs wrote: Can I try playing these on my early Edison Model Home with a Standard Speaker reproducer?

Blain

Hi Blain,

John Levin's skin will be crawling at your suggestion of inflicting a Standard Speaker on these early cylinders. Mine too.

First, the cylinders need to be cleaned of the mold. Running a stylus over a moldy brown wax cylinder will tend to embed the dirt/mold into the wax. If you've never successfully cleaned brown wax cylinders, these are NOT the ones to learn on.

Once clean, the 125 year-old recordings should be treated as gently as possible. That rules out period equipment - - especially the Standard Speaker, whose lateral compliance is quite poor.

My advice would be to contact John at his web site above, and arrange to send your cylinders to him for professional cleaning. John can then carefully play & digitally record them on his CPS1. John is the brown wax cylinder king, and can probably identify who made yours and when. (He's also a very nice guy.) You can get your cylinders back nice and clean, and get a digital file so you can hear them without wear to the original artifacts.

Now that I've volunteered John for all this, I hope we're still on speaking terms!

Best of luck,
George P.

Darn, I have really been enjoying playing my Uncle Josh brown wax cylinders on the Old Home with earphones. I thought that was amazing.
So I take your advice to heart, being a novice, and I hope John still speaks to me after suggesting to play them on my Home.

Blain

Canuk Phonographs wrote: So I take your advice to heart, being a novice, and I hope John still speaks to me after suggesting to play them on my Home.

Blain

John will probably be so grateful to you for preserving them that he'll be your friend forever.

Best of luck!

George P.

I thoroughly agree with not using a Standard speaker to play valuable brown wax. It was intended to record and play back on blank cylinders and not intended for playing factory recordings. Standard speakers are rarely adjusted perfectly so there is a high probability that they will damage your records

I thoroughly agree with not using a Standard speaker to play valuable brown wax. It was intended to record and play back on blank cylinders and not intended for playing factory recordings. Standard speakers are rarely adjusted perfectly so there is a high probability that they will damage your records

That exact scenario can be reproduced at the present time
by the use of newly made brown wax blanks.

When using those, the phonograph can be used as
originally intended in that recordings can be quickly
made and played back. In that scenario, the need for
exacting care such as is required when dealing
with/preserving valuable ancient and very rare recordings buried in mold on an old channel rim cylinder is not even an issue.

This is why I took the time and actually bothered to
reconstruct as best that I can, the procedure for
making brand new brown wax blanks.

The goal there was to produce blanks which are
sensitive enough to cut well in a typical temperature
range experienced by most folks who would attempt
to record cylinders at home. The goal was also
to meet or exceed the original Edison blanks
in all general performance standards.

That was a lofty goal, because Edison did set
that bar rather high.

Those standards include minimum surface noise,
complete lack of any internal defects such as pits,
or bubbles. All annoying internal defects commonly
seen in brown wax such as streaks and any other
common forms of separation of the suspension during
cooling have been eliminated in this process.

To back up these lofty claims, each blank has
a serial number to identify it. Each blank comes
with an unconditional guarantee against any
defects.

So, while we are on this subject, for those
who would desire to record and play back brown wax
recordings using period equipment, there are brand new
brown wax blanks available which are in every way
as good or better than the originals.

The availability of these obviates any perceived
need to shave rare ancient recordings.

Chuck