The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am fascinated by purely mechanical machines and I have decided to get myself a gramophone. I'm doing my research, but I haven't seen a gramophone in person yet. I ran into the ad from Wayne (NJ) show, but unfortunately too late. The next show in Wayne is next April. Is there any other place where I can see and listen to a gramophone and ask questions about it?
I am located in northern NJ. Wayne would have been perfect for me if only I saw that ad few weeks ago.
Thanks all.

There's a show in Orlando, Florida in January - - but that's quite a drive from New Jersey.

Perhaps there's a collector in New Jersey reading this who would be interested in giving you a tour.

Meanwhile, Here are a couple of helpful articles from the Antique Phonograph Society web site:

https://www.antiquephono.org/collecting ... ographs-2/

https://www.antiquephono.org/encounteri ... onographs/

https://www.antiquephono.org/basic-anti ... onal-tips/

Best of luck!

George P.

George, thanks a lot for those articles! They are very useful to me.
One of the articles said that the needle needs to have 45 degree to a record, but the accompanied picture had the angle far from 45, more like 60 degrees.
Is it 45, or is it like in the picture?

ymg200 wrote:George, thanks a lot for those articles! They are very useful to me.
One of the articles said that the needle needs to have 45 degree to a record, but the accompanied picture had the angle far from 45, more like 60 degrees.
Is it 45, or is it like in the picture?

It's obvious your intelligence and attention to detail far exceed that of the average antique phonograph collector! (As well as the author of that article!) The pictured sound box is at the correct angle - whatever it is...

George P.

George,
Since we've touched the topic of needles, has there been an attempt to produce retrofit needles for antique machines that are made from other than steel material so that there is no need to replace a needle after each record? That would make sense to me, but I have no idea how big is the market for such needles.

ymg200 wrote:George,
Since we've touched the topic of needles, has there been an attempt to produce retrofit needles for antique machines that are made from other than steel material so that there is no need to replace a needle after each record? That would make sense to me, but I have no idea how big is the market for such needles.

While it sound alike a good idea at first, the reality is that wear will always happen with friction, so with such a needle there would be much more wear on the record. There were attempts back in the day to make "semi permanent needles", but I dont think they were as good for the record as a fresh needle would be.

The other problem is that with the variation of groove sized between pressing, a steel needle "adjusts" to the width of the groove and causes less wear.

Martin

Mormon S wrote:

ymg200 wrote:George,
Since we've touched the topic of needles, has there been an attempt to produce retrofit needles for antique machines that are made from other than steel material so that there is no need to replace a needle after each record? That would make sense to me, but I have no idea how big is the market for such needles.

While it sound alike a good idea at first, the reality is that wear will always happen with friction, so with such a needle there would be much more wear on the record. There were attempts back in the day to make "semi permanent needles", but I dont think they were as good for the record as a fresh needle would be.

The other problem is that with the variation of groove sized between pressing, a steel needle "adjusts" to the width of the groove and causes less wear.

Martin

Actually... I've used Tungs- tone needles, Victor Chromium Needles, HMV Long Play Needles, Columbia Duragold needles, and other semi- permanents for decades on all my records with no ill effects. Sapphire and ruby needles for ceramic cartridge changers shouldn't be used because the stylus pressure will cause damage.

Lots of collectors shun semi permanent needles, but I know what I've observed. As soon as the sound is a little "off", I change the needle. Soundbox compliance needs to be optimum- new gaskets, new isolator, and tension properly adjusted.

Steel needles wear out in one playing- where do you suppose the steel that's worn away winds up?

I've read somewhere that used steel needles could be sharpened. Is this practiced? There is a tool for sharpening drill bits, which maintains the correct sharpening angle. Is there a similar tool for needles?

ymg200 wrote:I've read somewhere that used steel needles could be sharpened. Is this practiced? There is a tool for sharpening drill bits, which maintains the correct sharpening angle. Is there a similar tool for needles?

Regularily no, Thorn needles and Bamboo fibre needles can be resharpened, although in theory steel needles could be sharpened with something like a thorn needle sharpener, steel needles cost so little I wouldn't say it's worth it for the risk of the damage to the disc a needle not properly sharpened could cause

Steel needles can not be resharpened. Steel needles do have a steel core and are nickel or chrome (or even gold) plated. This softer plating is subject to wear to adjust for the specific groove width. Once used, the plating is partly ground off and the steel core is laid bare. Any further play is damaging the record. Further "resharpening" is making things much worse.