The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

This isn't an acoustic/wind-up question, but I'm hoping someone here might be able to help nonetheless. Can anyone recommend someone in the U.S. who can restore or replace crystal cartridges for electric pickups authentically, i.e. with new crystals? Westech doesn't do it; I hear there's a fellow in Germany who grows his own crystals and does restoration on cartridges, but I also hear his workmanship is very shoddy and his crystals usually break fairly quickly. (Plus there's the hassle of sending something overseas, where it can't be tracked or insured.) Has anyone here ever had any luck finding either new (recent vintage) or NOS crystals that were usable? If you own a restored crystal pickup, how did you do the restoration (other than retrofitting a different type of cartridge)?

Any leads and/or guidance would be most appreciated!

Westech says they rebuild crystal and ceramic cartridges on their site- is yours one of the few they say they don't?

Have heard very little good news on Westech rebuilds, mostly because they seem to be transplanting small modern ceramic elements into the early crystal bodies. Output voltage is extremely low, most of the early crystals like B-1 & B2 and a lot of the Astatics had output voltages of 1 to 2V.

Just received a batch back from Germany and they all seem to work as expected, voltages are well over 1V.

Chuck

ChuckA wrote:
Just received a batch back from Germany and they all seem to work as expected, voltages are well over 1V.

Chuck

Cartridges or just crystals? Did Schmidt do them?

Hyperion wrote:

ChuckA wrote:
Just received a batch back from Germany and they all seem to work as expected, voltages are well over 1V.

Chuck

Cartridges or just crystals? Did Schmidt do them?

Cartridges and yes they were from Herbert Schmidt.

Chuck

I guess the old horseshoe magnetic cartridges are a simpler and easier technology because there a couple people in the U.S. who still do those. Can you upgrade these pickups to ceramic cartridges?

Marc,

The simple answer is yes.

It can be done and it has been done, but it is not an easy process. If you are doing it to an early (1927-1936) phonograph, there will be a mismatch of impedance (coils have a lower impedance than crystal/ceramic pick ups) and a mismatch of equalization (the crystal/ceramic pick ups have a noticeable lack of bass below 300 hz). My best results at doing this change over have come from installing a pre-amp before the amplifier input. I can provide you with a diagram for building one. The next consideration is the mechanical installation. Installing a crystal/ceramic pick up in place of a horseshoe magnet pick up can be a challenging task to build the structure which holds the crystal/ceramic pick up and looks good at the same time. Then there is the issue of whether the tone-arm can track well with the lighter weight pick up, not to mention whether the lighter mass will be able to trigger the reject system.

My recommendation: Find a good replacement horseshoe magnet pick up, or rebuild the one you have. I think that would be easier and far less costly.

Cheers, Russie

I think my entry above was not clear. I wasn't talking about replacing my horseshoe cartridge on my Edison C-2. I was talking about replacing pickups with crystal cartridges with ceramic carts.

marcapra wrote:I think my entry above was not clear. I wasn't talking about replacing my horseshoe cartridge on my Edison C-2. I was talking about replacing pickups with crystal cartridges with ceramic carts.

Marc,

As I said in an earlier post the main issue is the lower output voltage of ceramic vs crystal. Many of the early amplifiers were designed around the 1 to 2V output of the crystal pickups, most amps will not be able to deliver anywhere near their rated output with a ceramic pickup. There is also an issue with frequency response of the crystal vs the ceramic units.

Chuck

Marc,

In that case, the old dead crystal cartridge can be sent to Westech for rebuild ( I don't know if they still do it). They install a new element in the old housing. I've had several done by them recently, and they all worked great, other than a slight reduction in output. As Chuck pointed out, the output is somewhat less due to their use of ceramic element in place of crystal element. That translates to a reduction in volume.

In many cases, modifications can be made to the input circuitry to bring the volume back up.

What make and model is this about anyway?

Cheers, Russie