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I have had a customer who purchased a restored 17 Victrola from me and has asked what kind of needles to buy on ebay. Believe it or not, i really only play them when i test them out and have been using some tungstone needles i bought a while back. I do ship them with some sample needles but just send a small amount of some mixed steel needles i got with machines (unused) and a sample Victor record, i have hundreds given to me with machines. When i have time i plan to go thru them and index them.
I saw they have steel; loud, medium etc, spear point and even bamboo.
Most machines have exhibition or no 2 sound boxes.
Any suggestions so i can pass it along? Would the $4.99 regular steel needles be good enough?

This question is asked here from time to time, and there are typically many opinions expressed. For example, I refer you to the following thread from earlier this year:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=39641

I would suggest that your buyers should try loud, medium and soft tone needles to see what they like the best. If they are playing later, electrically recorded disks on their Victrolas, the soft tone would probably be best.

Many people like me prefer the "soundgen" needles sold by TMF member Mike Child. But others prefer the Bry-O-Phonics or Walt Sommers needles. Walt is "cyber_tigger" on ebay.

I do not recommend buying just any needles of unknown origin on ebay. Some sellers sell used needles which will harm records.

Soft tone is a good choice for your machines, as they don't tend to chew records as badly.

Most of them have the triangular needle chuck. If you can buy bamboo or fiber needles in replica form you can have something decent, but they must be sharpened. Fiber needles are their own thing...some love them and others hate them. I was listening to some c. 1915-1920 Victor Fiber Needles the other day on a 1914 Victrola XIV, Exhibition soundbox. It filtered the static but made the sound a bit washed-out.

Walt Sommers makes excellent steel needles of all volume levels.

I also enjoy Chamberlain Phonograph Needles, specifically the soft tone steels. They sound good even on my "Viva-Tonal" Columbia Grafonola--which is a take on the Orthophonic-style machines. Lots of clarity and volume, little wear to records.

His Siren Spear-Points are incredibly loud, but they're better for early Exhibition reproducers & fairly quiet records. I don't use them much because I don't like wearing out records, and the quality control a few years back on the Spear-Points wasn't incredibly good. I got a pack with some duds in it.

Others will chime in. My biggest question is why don't you get your jam on a little more often? Victrolas are fun to play records on and some of the old discs are great.

Soft tone is a good choice for your machines, as they don't tend to chew records as badly.

Most of them have the triangular needle chuck. If you can buy bamboo or fiber needles in replica form you can have something decent, but they must be sharpened. Fiber needles are their own thing...some love them and others hate them. I was listening to some c. 1915-1920 Victor Fiber Needles the other day on a 1914 Victrola XIV, Exhibition soundbox. It filtered the static but made the sound a bit washed-out.

Walt Sommers makes excellent steel needles of all volume levels.

I also enjoy Chamberlain Phonograph Needles, specifically the soft tone steels. They sound good even on my "Viva-Tonal" Columbia Grafonola--which is a take on the Orthophonic-style machines. Lots of clarity and volume, little wear to records.

His Siren Spear-Points are incredibly loud, but they're better for early Exhibition reproducers & fairly quiet records. I don't use them much because I don't like wearing out records, and the quality control a few years back on the Spear-Points wasn't incredibly good. I got a pack with some duds in it.

Others will chime in. My biggest question is why don't you get your jam on a little more often? Victrolas are fun to play records on and some of the old discs are great.

In agreement with all of the above, and I will add: It is not a good idea to use a tungsten needle as a test needle. Those needles are not intended to be used on acoustic recordings, their best use is for playing early electric recordings.

They especially are not intended to be moved from one machine to another. They are intended to stay in the reproducer until they wear out.

Reasons being, they are not a point, but rather a fine wire, which wears an angle to the tip of the wire (which is the same as the angle of the armature to the record). When removed and re-installed, that angle orientation is lost. In addition, the tip wears to a fine chisel point (which has the same V as the record groove), and when removed and re-installed that chisel point could be perpendicular to the record groove, or even upside down, instead of in line with it. Those situations will cause extra and avoidable damage to the beginning grooves of a recording.

A word of caution. Tungsten needles are quite easy to bend, especially at the wire tip. Always handle the reproducer very carefully and very gently lower the reproducer onto the record. These needles are especially valuable for use on early changers.

I always tell people to use either soft or medium tone steel needles, and to use each needle only once, then discard it. All too often, I see people keep the same needle in a reproducer, thinking it to be the same as an electronic pickup from decades later. It's not. One needle equals one play. More than that, and it can start damaging records.

Bamboo needles are nice in that they don't wear records and can be sharpened to get several plays out of a needle. However, bamboo needles also produce a very soft tone. To the point that if you're hard of hearing like I am, it can be a little too soft.

I'd avoid the spear point needles like the plague. They can be hard on records. The same with loud tone steel needles. If you're playing common records and conducting a demonstration outside, no big deal, but I wouldn't use them on any records I cared about.

startgroove wrote:In agreement with all of the above, and I will add: It is not a good idea to use a tungsten needle as a test needle. Those needles are not intended to be used on acoustic recordings, their best use is for playing early electric recordings.

They especially are not intended to be moved from one machine to another. They are intended to stay in the reproducer until they wear out.

Reasons being, they are not a point, but rather a fine wire, which wears an angle to the tip of the wire (which is the same as the angle of the armature to the record). When removed and re-installed, that angle orientation is lost. In addition, the tip wears to a fine chisel point (which has the same V as the record groove), and when removed and re-installed that chisel point could be perpendicular to the record groove, or even upside down, instead of in line with it. Those situations will cause extra and avoidable damage to the beginning grooves of a recording.

A word of caution. Tungsten needles are quite easy to bend, especially at the wire tip. Always handle the reproducer very carefully and very gently lower the reproducer onto the record. These needles are especially valuable for use on early changers.

I'm not so sure about that, as I have several later pre- electric Victor records that recommend Tungs-Tone needles on the label. When these were developed, electrical recording was not yet in use.

gramophone-georg wrote: I'm not so sure about that, as I have several later pre- electric Victor records that recommend Tungs-Tone needles on the label. When these were developed, electrical recording was not yet in use.

I'll second George's reply. Also, Tungs-tones work much better on unworn, clean copies. They may accentuate groove wear on already worn records, moreso than steel needles.

All excellent advice, i think i will be recommending Walt's soft tone steel needles and will get some for myself. These 16s and 17s do seem very loud and i think soft tone would do fine. I do intend on going thru and play my records once i finish my personal walnut 17 i have been working on for the last 2 weeks, it was in rough shape with lots of veneer water damage but is almost ready for the finish. I am looking forward to seeing this one completed. (Sorry for the rotated pic, i am in Florida visiting family and don't have access to my computer). Is there any way to rotate pics with this forum posting?

That Victrola 17 is great! I saw a mahogany one up close once. Good to hear you've got a "personal Victrola" out of all that parade of beautiful machines you've been putting on the Forum, and even better to hear that you'll get to sit down & listen to the fruits of your labor.

Thanks for saving it. Lots of collector people are scared of working on water damage--they don't think it can be saved.