The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have been working on getting my VV XVII to shine. I got it somewhat alligatored, and I have been flattening the finish with old english oil and fine sandpaper, and I'm very impressed with the result so far! I am thinking of finishing it of with wax. Is jhonson wax paste any good for this type of thing?

Thanks
Martin

Use Renaissance wax, not Johnson’s.

I may be wrong but I think that wax over an oily finish may create a smeary look? Seems like I tried that once with that result.

Larry

It's been a long time since I used wax on furniture, probably since most of mine is alligatored shellac I remember the Johnson's would dry out in the little cracks,turning white and looking terrible.
-bill

HisMastersVoice wrote:Use Renaissance wax, not Johnson’s.

Easy to use!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax

James.

wjw wrote:It's been a long time since I used wax on furniture, probably since most of mine is alligatored shellac I remember the Johnson's would dry out in the little cracks,turning white and looking terrible.
-bill

That’s why one uses a pigmented wax. Johnson’s is good, but you need to melt it and add some Burnt Umber and some Lampblack universal colorant. It is much simpler to just buy the Minwax pigmented wax. Kiwi shoe polish also works well.

Uncle Vanya wrote:

wjw wrote:It's been a long time since I used wax on furniture, probably since most of mine is alligatored shellac I remember the Johnson's would dry out in the little cracks,turning white and looking terrible.
-bill

That’s why one uses a pigmented wax. Johnson’s is good, but you need to melt it and add some Burnt Umber and some Lampblack universal colorant. It is much simpler to just buy the Minwax pigmented wax. Kiwi shoe polish also works well.

No offense, but if anyone was caught applying shoe polish to any artifact in any museum around the world, they’d be fired immediately. Kiwi, along with Johnson’s is full of unstable, volatile, and harmful solvents. Renaissance wax, however, is used by most large museums for preservation of fine antiquities. I’ll stick with that.

HisMastersVoice wrote:No offense, but if anyone was caught applying shoe polish to any artifact in any museum around the world, they’d be fired immediately. Kiwi, along with Johnson’s is full of unstable, volatile, and harmful solvents. Renaissance wax, however, is used by most large museums for preservation of fine antiquities. I’ll stick with that.

I totally agree with this, and also want to mention the fact that it can leave behind some unintended color effects.

Many years ago, at the recommendation of a friend, I tried tan colored Kiwi (Spit-N-Shine) on an oak cabinet--fortunately not a phonograph. I coated the entire cabinet, which had a shellac finish, with a liberal coat, let it dry, and buffed it out. What I was left with was a red-orange day-glow colored finish. I tried cleaning it off, rubbing it with lemon oil, and Murphy's oil soap, but it stayed red-orange. The entire finish had to be removed and re-done.

I've since heard, from others, that Kiwi brown wax can leave behind a bright red hue, which would be just as bad.

Best to stick with waxes designed for wood surfaces.

OrthoFan

OrthoFan wrote:

HisMastersVoice wrote:No offense, but if anyone was caught applying shoe polish to any artifact in any museum around the world, they’d be fired immediately. Kiwi, along with Johnson’s is full of unstable, volatile, and harmful solvents. Renaissance wax, however, is used by most large museums for preservation of fine antiquities. I’ll stick with that.

I totally agree with this, and also want to mention the fact that it can leave behind some unintended color effects.

Many years ago, at the recommendation of a friend, I tried tan colored Kiwi (Spit-N-Shine) on an oak cabinet--fortunately not a phonograph. I coated the entire cabinet, which had a shellac finish, with a liberal coat, let it dry, and buffed it out. What I was left with was a red-orange day-glow colored finish. I tried cleaning it off, rubbing it with lemon oil, and Murphy's oil soap, but it stayed red-orange. The entire finish had to be removed and re-done.

I've since heard, from others, that Kiwi brown wax can leave behind a bright red hue, which would be just as bad.

Best to stick with waxes designed for wood surfaces.

OrthoFan

So, in short, give Kiwi the boot!

Sorry, couldn't resist. Henceforth, I'll bite my tongue and avoid lacing my comments with weak humor. Er...

Turning away from foolishness, I reclaimed the finish of my Edisonic with a product called "Black Wax" by a company called Pacific Engineering, which, quite sensibly, was in--Connecticut. Not an easy project, involving weeks of on-again, off-again evenings applying the stuff with 0000 steel wool, but the results turned out beautifully, with all the heavy alligatoring gone and a nice wax shine that has held up for about a decade now. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, Pacific Engineering has sunk below the surface without a trace. Black Wax was a paste wax mixed with rottenstone. Perhaps another comparable product is out there?

By the way, according to the manufacturer 'way back when, alligatoring is not the original finish going bad; it's the accumulated residue of decades of cooking fumes, tobacco smoke, furniture wax, air pollution, etc., etc. adhering itself on top of the original finish, which remains perfectly good underneath. My experience with the product bears that analysis out.

And besides, have you priced Kiwi shoe polish lately? Around here you'll pay upwards of $5 for a little ol' tin of Kiwi that used to cost 59¢! What do they put in this stuff that makes it so costly?