The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Dear all, Firstly happy and healthy 2020.

So am here in Agra, North India showing my 9 and 6 years old the Taj Mahal. And wandering the side streets when I came across this.

He says he has the horn somewhere; and will have it by tomorrow.

Anybody here intrested?

I am certainly no HMV authority but it looks correct to me. If you place a needle in the Exhibition sound box it should touch for come very close to the spindle and it looks like it should. I see no extra crank holes. I'm guessing it's a horn type HMV made for export.

Jerry B.

This seems to be the horn that came with the machine.

But no horn elbow? Locating that elbow might be difficult. Price? Jerry

Hi Jerry, he's still rummaging around the warehouse so who knows - he might find it. But not holding my breath.

He's asking for 900$ but have no idea how he arrivied at that number.

To the best of my knowledge late elbows, like the one needed for that machine, have not been reproduced. If it can't be located I would expect to pay $150 to $200 for an original if one can be located. The machine looks like a very worthy project but it is a project. A project Victor II or III would not warrant a $900 price here in the States. But you're half a world away and I don't have a feel for HMV prices. I wish you the best of luck negotiating a better price.

Jerry Blais

It's a Model H.B.O, a slightly cheaper version of the Intermediate Monarch / Model 2. It was on the market in the UK from 1912 to 1915, but this one was clearly sold in India, as it has the H.B.O. model on a gilt transfer on the side. In the UK, these gilt transfers only ever gave the old style names (like 'Intermediate Monarch'). The letter codes were usually given on the base, often with a date.

By Indian standards, this looks like a well-preserved example. But it was a bit of a bargain basement model when it was new, and I wouldn't want to pay $900 for it, even with an elbow.

Without comparing too much, this HMV Intermediate Monarch sold for 430 euro in Northern Europe in September last year. It has a single spring motor only, but had a wooden horn, and in general appeared to be in decent/reasonable condition, or at least not rougher than the one you have found there in India....
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42602
I know prices are very different in Southern Europe, and also very possibly in the USA for a HMV horn gramophone, but taking into consideration taxes, transport costs etc, I would myself, living in Northern Europe, not be interested in this horn gramophone where the owner in India wants $ 900, and still no elbow, no profit for you,,,and well...the transport cost is not yet calculated. As an example, I looked at a HMV horn gramophone some weeks back in the UK, and asked for a quote to have it shippped to continental Europe. I got a quote at 430 euro! And from UK to continental Europe there would be no added VAT, but from India to Europe/USA, VAT and taxes would be added, even if the freight posssibly would be lower than the quote I received for a shipment within Europe.
But that is me...

Steve wrote:Both machines are quite standard for their respective territories. I collect rare Indian models where they are unique or superior to the UK equivalents. Sadly this machine is neither and along with the European example is in very poor, tatty condition. I do wonder how tired looking machines with weathered finishes have survived with immaculately plated brightwork? An excellent Intermediate Monarch with wooden horn is going to be anything between 800-1200 GBP. I agree with Oedipus, the Indian machine isn't worth 900 USD in that state with an MG horn needing restoration. I bought my mahogany Intermediate Monarch with wooden horn and with a stunning mahogany cabinet, unusually without any crazing to the finishes for 1000 GBP about 5 years ago. It is the rare double-spring motor variant too.

Just re posting in a larger font as I couldn't read the original text.