The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I think to invest in some modern equipment. Although fun to play early records on early machines, damage can be done if a record is played on the wrong machine. What about modern equipment with their very light tones arms? Can these handle any record with no fear of damage?

Yes, as long as the modern turntable supports 78rpm speed - and you have the correct cartridge installed to play lateral 78s... or the correct one for vertical Diamond Discs and Pathé records.

jboger wrote:What about modern equipment with their very light tones arms? Can these handle any record with no fear of damage?

Well... they can handle records with absolutely no fear of damage.

Wether thay can handle "any" record is another matter. There are issues concerning speed, size of the diamond tip, lateral and/or vertical cut, and so on. You will find many information if you perform a search on this forum. In any case, no damage will be done.

One does need the ability to fine-tune the speed up or down. It is not only early operatic recordings that play at unusual speeds (Michael Henstock's book on the tenor Fernando De Lucia alleges speeds ranging from 65 to 84 r.p.m.); the British branch of the Columbia company regularly used 80 r.p.m. until 1927, and even later there are oddities such as the 1939 version of Liszt's Les Préludes by the London Symphony Orchestra under Felix Weingartner (Columbia again) whose four sides play at four different speeds.

Oliver Mundy.

John R.Bolig's book on Caruso gives playing speeds on some early recordings as low as 68rpm, yet some later HMV reissues are marked as 78!
Berliners seem to play at whatever speed the recording machine was running at on the day, but 65/70rpm is usually not too far out.

Having said that, I never play old records on modern equipment. For me the magic of the hobby is listening to my records on the machines for which they were designed.
I have a fascination with recordings which were made and could be played back without electricity, apart from electroplating the masters of course.
If I want to hear old recordings on my modern hi-fi I have plenty of CD compilations to choose from, including many rare titles which I could never hope to own as originals.

I hope you'll forgive my tooting my own horn, but I've written a series of articles for the webzine TNT-Audio about turntables for playing "78s" in a modern system; here's a link to the first: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/78_tu ... s_1_e.html Each links to the next in the series except for a follow-on that I wrote recently; that one is here: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/78_tu ... s_5_e.html

Here's my review of the Graham Slee Accession, a phono preamp that I consider an important development in playback of acoustic records on modern gear: https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/gsp_accession2_e.html

And here's a general article about assembling modern gear to play old records. It's extremely basic, aimed at those who are pretty much entirely unfamiliar with old records, but it may have a tip or two that will be of use: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/assem ... tem_e.html I freely admit it's weak on the subject of cartridges and styli; I have a promising new (to me at least!) cartridge/stylus combination in hand to review but haven't gotten to testing it and writing it up yet.

My own take on "original" vs. "modern," pace epigramophone, is that vertical cut records, or at least Edison and Pathé, generally sound best when played back on the machines for which they were made, and that's how I almost always play them. Laterals, on the other hand, I usually play on modern gear. Reissue transfers have come a long way; many (but by no means all!) on CD do sound very fine. I can't think of a single one I ever heard on LP, however, that I found up to what I could achieve myself with decent home gear. In fact, my dissatisfaction with one of those horrid Everest LPs of Caruso transfers, a well-meant Christmas gift from my parents when I was an early teen who had just "discovered" 78s, was a big factor in getting me into collecting originals in a big way. Even when the "pros" have outstripped what I can do myself, however, I still enjoy making my own transfers, seeing how well I can rise to the challenges of extracting the best sound I can get out of those sometimes balky old grooves. That said, as epigramophone pointed out, transfers are the only way to go for things like Mapleson cylinders and other extreme rarities.

The first LP transfers I bought (in the 1960's) comprised a two record set on RCA Victor "The best of Caruso", far from perfect but good enough to arouse my interest. As drh says, there were some bad LP transfers made, using inferior copies of the original discs with little or no regard for speed and pitch. Excessive treble cut to reduce surface noise also blunted much of the impact.

On CD, Ward Marston's transfers are among the best available, although I also like the Nimbus Prima Voce series. Recorded from an acoustic gramophone they divide opinion, but they are probably the nearest approach to what the original owners would have heard when they brought the records home.

Thanks for all the responses. I agree there is no substitute for playing a record on the machine it was designed for. Still, modern equipment is an option, and it sounds like a safe one. Major concerns seem to be (1) having the right cartridges for lateral and vertical cut records and (2) being able to adjust the speed up or down from 78. Again, thanks for the input.

jboger wrote:(1) having the right cartridges for lateral and vertical cut records and (2) being able to adjust the speed up or down from 78. Again, thanks for the input.

There's no cartridge for vertical or lateral records.

For vertical records it just needs to be a stereo cartridge that you can use a few methods of making so that you only retrieve the vertical signal - a so called mono '78 cartridge' won't do in that circumstance.