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If you decide to dismantle your phonograph motor to clean the springs and spring barrels, don't be tempted to use TAE's or Victor's outdated lubrication formula of mixing graphite with Vaseline.

I just spent the afternoon trying to separate the spring barrel case on my Meisselbach motor. It spent 4-5 days soaking in gasoline, being sprayed with carburetor cleaner and engine degreaser. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it apart. Finally, with the help of a clamp and an oil filter wrench, I worked it back and forth until it moved slightly and was able to get it open with a screwdriver and hammer. The problem I discovered was 100 years of Vaseline and graphite hardened into a tar-like adhesive that just didn't want to break loose. Even after all of the soaking and spraying with degreasing solutions, it was still a hardened mess. The spring coils were actually glued together by that gunk...

My point is this... a lot of well meaning collectors and suppliers (like APSCO) still recommend mixing graphite flakes with Vaseline (per Edison or Victor), just because it was the "original" formula for lubricating springs and gears. This is just my opinion, because I'm sure a lot of people still do this for "authenticity", but I wouldn't put that stuff in any machine that I cared about. Vaseline is a petroleum by product that was discovered on the end of oil well drilling bits in the 1850s and was used by drillers for skin softening. It may be fine for that and diaper rash, but it is not a real lubricant. It is a form of soft petroleum wax and hardens up over time.

Use something modern for motor lubrication, Tom would have chosen Mobil 1 or Valvoline synthetic oil and grease if it had been available in his lifetime...
If its good enough for your modern automobile wheel bearings, its good enough for your phonograph...

Plus one to that! Automotive brake cleaner is an excellent cleaner for the old petroleum/graphite lubricant. Use the auto parts store brand - it is just as effective and much cheaper. I went through several cans last summer when I did a group of motors. It is effective but very messy.

Jim

I would like to suggest for the millionth time, that the most effective way to dissolve old grease and oil is with plain inexpensive vegetable cooking oil. It is non-flammable, non-toxic, non-carcinogenic. You do not need petroleum distillates to dissolve grease! Cooking oil even dissolves roofing tar!

My spring mixture is mobile 1 synthetic grease two spoonfuls, and 1 spoonful of powdered graphite used in planters. It has worked well for me. When I started out, sure I used Vasaline and graphite, and in a few years, those had to be taken apart and cleaned again, just like suggested. I will have to try cooking oil as a cleaner, I have a silvertone motor to clean and a Cheney.

Curt A wrote:If you decide to dismantle your phonograph motor to clean the springs and spring barrels, don't be tempted to use TAE's or Victor's outdated lubrication formula of mixing graphite with Vaseline.

I just spent the afternoon trying to separate the spring barrel case on my Meisselbach motor. It spent 4-5 days soaking in gasoline, being sprayed with carburetor cleaner and engine degreaser. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it apart. Finally, with the help of a clamp and an oil filter wrench, I worked it back and forth until it moved slightly and was able to get it open with a screwdriver and hammer. The problem I discovered was 100 years of Vaseline and graphite hardened into a tar-like adhesive that just didn't want to break loose. Even after all of the soaking and spraying with degreasing solutions, it was still a hardened mess. The spring coils were actually glued together by that gunk...

My point is this... a lot of well meaning collectors and suppliers (like APSCO) still recommend mixing graphite flakes with Vaseline (per Edison or Victor), just because it was the "original" formula for lubricating springs and gears. This is just my opinion, because I'm sure a lot of people still do this for "authenticity", but I wouldn't put that stuff in any machine that I cared about. Vaseline is a petroleum by product that was discovered on the end of oil well drilling bits in the 1850s and was used by drillers for skin softening. It may be fine for that and diaper rash, but it is not a real lubricant. It is a form of soft petroleum wax and hardens up over time.

Use something modern for motor lubrication, Tom would have chosen Mobil 1 or Valvoline synthetic oil and grease if it had been available in his lifetime...
If its good enough for your modern automobile wheel bearings, its good enough for your phonograph...

An interesting sidebar to this discussion about modern lubricants on old things arose in the antique car circles.
Some modern lubricants have a high sulpher content and are not recommended in certain parts of the drive train because they attack the metals used there..fine to be used on modern equipment but a death sentence for the pre 1940 stuff

I used low odor mineral spirits to clean motor and spring parts and it was quite effective. Mobil 1 synthetic grease and graphite powder worked great. My A250 runs quiet and I expect it will continue to do so past my life time.

If you REALLY want to be authentic, there is no substitute for "Bear's Oil"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8-dydFZB0

Interested to know your thoughts about white lithium grease?

phonogal wrote:Interested to know your thoughts about white lithium grease?

I've had an Edison Diamond Disc machine serviced using white lithium grease and my only objection to it was the odor it gave off, which wafted every time I opened the lid. Since then I've used other types.
Bob

I use white lithium grease in a spray can... it works great and haven't noticed any negative smell or issues.