The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I got this machine some years back from the great-grand-nephew of the original owner, and I know it sat unused and untouched for close to a century. The machine works great, but for one odd issue: Often, as the reproducer travels from one end of a cylinder to the other, the stylus seems to make less and less contact with the grooves. That is, at the start of a record, it will play loud and steady, but gradually both the volume and the steadiness decrease, and by the end of a cylinder, I'm only getting intermittent (and softer) sound. After considering and eliminating many possibilities, it seems the problem is the crane/horn. As you can see, the crank is not the typical "question mark" type you see with metal Edison cygnets, but more of a shepherd's crook that attaches directly to the horn with an "s" hook, rather than employing a chain. As the reproducer moves, the horn and rubber connector tug at it more and more, lifting it. I have tried different length connectors, and that does not help. The crane appears to have two sections, as you can see, but the top section does not swivel at all, and I suspect that if it did, I would not have this problem. (The base of the crane is set into the support bracket with a pin and notches, so that part is definitely not supposed to swivel.) Does anyone have any experience with these cranes? Do they, in fact, swivel? If so, any recommendations on how I can get this one loosened up? Both parts are magnetic, so I don't believe either is pot metal, but I don't know what they are made of. Did Edison make these, or someone else? (The horn is a Music Master with an Edison/H&S decal). Thanks for your help!

The most obvious answer is that someone replaced the original Cygnet crane with this arrangement. Without the suspension spring, the angle of the horn pulls the whole carriage up as it nears the end of the cylinder, causing the stylus to lose contact.

You can get correct reproduction Cygnet crane parts from a number of dealers; that should fix the problem.

-Bill

I agree with Bill The most likely problem is that it needs the proper spring and horn attachments. You can also advertise on this forum in a wanted add for the parts. If that does not fix it then you may have to get a proper crane to hold it up. It looks like the one on it may work and it probably has some story and sentimental value so hopefully the upper parts will fix it. The standard Ds are work horses and worth the trouble to get going correctly. That is a nice horn on it. I do not think I have picture of the proper stuff but I will check. Tom
I found a couple of pics. they show the set up. with the adjustment rod and the spring.

You will need to purchase the entire cygnet crane, spring and screw. The crane itself does not swivel. The lateral movement comes from the spring. The screw mechanism adjusts the height of the horn. It is a somewhat tricky adjustment to get the horn just the right height so that it doesn't put too much pressure on the carriage so as to slow it down, but enough pressure to keep it from rising up as your's does.

Then there was the earlier crane which didn’t use the spring type suspension for the horn.

Ron

I would be very surprised if this crane were not original to the machine. For one thing, I pulled all of it -- machine, horn, crane, reproducer, recorder and cylinders (including some home recorded blanks) -- out of an attic, where they had been since the 1920's; for another, it fits both the bracket and the horn perfectly, and it's clearly not homemade. I believe I have seen one or two others like it in the past, too, though I cannot be certain. I'm not saying it's an Edison crane -- but could it not be a third-party rig sold and installed by the dealer? (I have a Fireside A with an Edison crane that looks like those in the other pictures posted here, but that's paired with a small metal Edison cygnet, and it doesn't work with this horn.) My question is, does it look like the top part is supposed to swivel, and if it did, would that correct the issue?

Please post a picture of the back of your horn and where it attaches to the crane. It may be a little easier to see what you need. That crane could be an after market one and need a different hook up. I have not seen one like it attached to a cygnet horn from Edison. If it is home made it was a good job. Tom

tomb wrote:Please post a picture of the back of your horn and where it attaches to the crane. It may be a little easier to see what you need. That crane could be an after market one and need a different hook up. I have not seen one like it attached to a cygnet horn from Edison. If it is home made it was a good job. Tom

That would be helpful, wouldn't it! Here you go. I've included one of the area where the crane meets the bracket, too. I hope this clears things up?

That is a home brew crane. It looks like it is not aligned as close as it should be. This will lessen the reproducer pressure as the cylinder plays. It kinds of needs to have the horn rotate on that connection. The crane stays stationary. If you look at the other pictures you will notice that the connector from the crane to the horn is perpendicular and straight. Yours has 10 to 15 degrees angle to the horn. see if you can take the pressure off and straighten the connection. You could even try using a string to subtract some tension but you will have to figure out how to straighten out that connection. A lot of people in the old days used string to attach there horns to the crane. They claimed it gave better sound. It will give you an idea of where to go . Tom