The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi.

This gramophone seems to be a late version of model 1A from around 1920. It actually belongs to a friend and the photographs you see here were taken by him. What I find very strange about it (the reason for this post) is the total lack of witness marks and empty screw holes where the speed control dial should’ve been attached to the motorboard.

There is a speed control dial with the machine that appears to be the correct type but absolutely no evidence that it was ever fitted. The brake is entirely absent and, again, there is no evidence of it ever being fitted to the machine. The correct tonearm is present but not attached and its housing is set at the wrong angle so that the soundbox would be on the wrong side of the turntable. Everything else about the machine seems to be correct (apart from the soundbox) and has been together for a long time, evidenced by the fact that the turntable was rusted onto its spindle and necessitated disassembly of the motor in order to facilitate is removal.

Of course I realise that it is probably impossible to know for sure what has happened here but I would, nevertheless, be interested in any thoughts that other members of this forum might have concerning this mystery.

Regards
Alan

That is weird. First I thought someone might have replaced the lid, but for that it seems to well done. I compared it with my own hornless 1a viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5312 and the corners etc seem identical. Was it never finished from the factory? Seems very unlikely, especially since the parts are with it. Please share if you find out more.

Thanks
Andreas

Thanks alang for the response.

I looked at the pictures you posted of your machine and a couple of details caught my eye. Your motorboard seems to have some stiffening rails either side of the motor which my friend's machine lacks. Also I see your motorboard has a couple of screws to secure it when it's closed. Needless to say, my friend's machine lacks both the screws and the holes to accommodate them.

Iv'e also noticed while reviewing my friend's photographs that his gooseneck is mounted back to front on his tonearm.

Thanks again
Alan

Myself, I would be tempted to say that the top lid at some stage has been refinished, all holes plugged etc, but that the restoration work never was finished, It would explain why the speed control is following the machine, but not yet reinstalled. I could be wrong of course, but this was my first impulse when seeing this machine.
I am attaching a photo of the top lid on my own HMV Model 1A.

Looking at the picture I don't see any evidence of plugged holes on the top., even though it appears that from the underside the two holes for the screws to secure the motor board are actually there. Could it be that the top was re-veneered? That would explain the missing holes on top, the perfect edges and corners, as well as the not so clean cutout at the spindle hole.

Andreas

Hello again.

After reading the responses to this thread, I phoned my friend and asked him to have another look at his gramophone. He confirmed that the two screw holes for the motorboard holding down screws are indeed present on the cabinet but not on the motorboard itself. He stated that these holes appear to have been professionally drilled but show no evidence of screws ever being threaded into them.

Neither of us believe that the motorboard has ever been refinished or re-veneered. This is borne out by the dirt and patina and the perfect colour match with the rest of the cabinet.

Also, I reckon that the two missing stiffening battens are important because they are supposed to prevent the unframed motorboard from warping.

I’m inclined to go with the theory that the machine left the factory unfinished and was actually used by its original owner without the brake or speed control dial fitted and with its tonearm mounted back to front.

I wonder what it sounded like?

Regards
Alan