The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Last year, I bought a lot of 22 cylinders in a case (no individual containers) at a local auction. Of the total, 12 were regular Edison 2-minute cylinders, 2 were Blue Amberols, and the rest were brown wax. I'd never owned any brown wax cylinders before, and did not have a machine that could play them until this month, when I found a Columbia AB. I was excited to listen to them, but unprepared for how softly they play. (The machine itself is pretty loud, which doesn't help.) I don't own a pair of listening tubes, but I wonder: Would they help in this instance? Interestingly, while the Edison 2-minutes are all quite moldy, the brown wax cylinders are pretty clean. Are they less susceptible to mold? And what is the proper speed at which to play them?

On to the main questions, though. One of the 8 brown wax cylinders is broken, though I have listened to the first half or so. (It's a clean break; I don't suppose anyone can "fix" these?) Several others have a spoken introduction that identifies them as Columbia; the announcer says "the Columbia Phonograph Company of New York City." I don't know if the cylinders can be dated at all using that introduction, but I figured I'd mention it in case they can. (I have heard of others that say "New York and Paris" instead.) Since they are so soft, I can't hear the intros very clearly, and would appreciate any help anyone could offer in identifying them. For now I only have some details to share about three of them:

1. This one has no introduction at all, so I don't even know for sure if it's a Columbia or an Edison. As you can see in the picture, it's a light brown, the color of solid honey. It sounds very much like a campaign speech: It starts with the sounds of people cheering, and then a speaker begins "My fellow citizens" and keeps going. I will share a few more phrases I can discern, in the order in which they are heard:

*"Relying upon the support of my countrymen, and invoking [?] the guidance of God"
*"economy"
*"The best way for the government to maintain"
*gold"
*debt"
*"We should have more revenue"
And, near the end:
*"President of the United States"

2. This one has the aforementioned Columbia introduction, announcing the singer is Edward M. Favor. The refrain contains the phrase, "I loved you then, and I love you yet." (I'm not sure the "and" is actually in there.)

3. This one also has that Columbia introduction, and it sounds like the title may be (or contain) "My Mariah." That phrase also occurs in the song.

I know this is precious little to go on, but any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edward M. Favor cylinder sounds like "Say Au Revoir, but not Good-bye." Possibly very early; he did record this same song for the North American Phonograph Company in 1894.

Check the height of this record with a known Edison brown wax. Shade of brown is a consequence of how long to compound is heated, not different formulas, it is just oxidization that occurs during the process, Columbia and Edison usually are Sodium Aluminum stearate and ceresin wax. The photographed cylinder looks like a Columbia cylinder circa 1898. The beveled left, non titled end is usually Columbia, though North American Edison's also have this beveled edge too, though a channeled title end on the early Edison's, and a single spiral. Columbia's early blanks are slightly shorter than an Edison blank, and not as thick, about 2.140" in diameter instead of 2.150-2.180 as with Edison early blanks. Columbia started making their own blanks in quantity in 1897, previous to this Columbia used Edison blank. The Columbia Phonograph Company during the 1889-1894 period, was licensed Washington DC. branch, (licensees of the Edison Phonograph) , founded by E.D. Easton and Paul Cromlin, who were stenographers to the Supreme Court. After 1894, Columbia migrated away from Edison, and became a branch of the American Graphophone Company, and then became a rival to Edison. During Columbia's early independent days, hired Mr. Storms, and John C. English to try to duplicate the Edison formula. Eventually in late 1894, 1895 Columbia, with the help of Adolph Melzer of Evansville IN. had came up with a usable brown wax formula, similar to Aylsworth's brown wax, using aluminum sodium stearate and at first coconut acid, and later either ceresin and paraffin wax added to the sodium aluminum steareate. http://members.tripod.com/~Edison_1/id16.html This page explains some of the technical differences, and histories.

The political speech sounds as if it may be related to the election campaign of 1896 (William Jennings Bryan [Democrat] against William McKinley {Republican]), in which the currency was a major issue; Bryan strove eloquently for a more liberal régime, with silver joining gold as the basis on which the dollar was founded, while the Republicans upheld a more restricted circulation backed, as hitherto, by gold alone. The promise of 'more revenue' sounds to me like something a 'free silver' (pro-Bryan) activist might say; but of course Bryan never became President. I wonder if this record is one of the 11000 series – perhaps even 11038 which contained two Bryan speeches? These were delivered by studio artists, not by the politicians etc. themselves.

As I understand it, the sequence of Columbia announcements between 1896 and 1902 [after the words 'Columbia Phonogra-a-a-ph Company'] was: '... of Washington D.C.'; '... of New York City'; '... of New York and Paris' (by about 1899); '... of New York and London'; no city name given, the announcement ending 'Company'; and finally, with the louder and shorter-bodied 'High Speed' cylinders of 1902, simply 'Columbia Record'.

Oliver Mundy.

Well, I've solved one of the mysteries -- kind of.

After playing cylinder #1 a bunch of times (how many plays do they have in them, anyway?) and straining to hear it, I remembered I own one of those small digital recorders, so I fished it out of a drawer and held it inside the phonograph's horn while I played it again. Actually, I played it through three times, at different speeds, just to be certain. Anyway, I picked up a few more phrases here and there, and through the magic of Google I was able to determine that what I have is a recording of President William McKinley's first inaugural address on March 4, 1897.

Now, that said, a few notes: First off, what I have is not a life recording, but a Reader's Digest-type condensation to capture the salient points of a much longer address in 2 or 3 minutes. (I don't know exactly how long the recording is, because I don't know what the correct playback speed should be.) I found the complete text here:

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/wi ... s-1897.php

Reading it and listening to the recording simultaneously, I could see the latter not only cut a lot, but also jumped around some in sequence.

Second, I don't even know if it's McKinley speaking, or some actor.

And finally, I still have no idea who made this recording, as there's no spoken introduction. If anyone can answer this last question, perhaps we can determine who is doing the oration.

Can anyone recommend any kind of sound-cleanup software that will help me minimize the noise on this and other cylinder recordings I plan to make, and perhaps highlight the human voices and instrumentation? You know, like you see people do on TV crime shows. Only cheaper, and easier to master. (If anyone know how to do this already and wants to take a crack at this one, I will be happy to email you the sound file.)

Oh, and I think VanEps is right about "Say Au Revoir, but not Good-bye." Now to determine which recording it is.

Your idea of using a recording device is a good one, as brown wax is softer than black wax, and excessive playing will definitely wear them out.

Brown wax cylinders can and do mold badly, but occasionally they can be be gently wiped with a soft, clean rag and clean up surprisingly well. I once bought a 5" Columbia Grand record simply for the unusual box. The cylinder itself was chalky white with mold, and priced accordingly. Once I returned home, I decided there was nothing to be lost by attempting to clean it. My reward was a decently-playing copy of The Charlatan March by Gilmore's Band.

Depending upon their age, brown wax cylinders typically (but not always) play at either 120 or 144 rpm. Spoken word recordings are often recorded slower, and of course home recordings are all over the spectrum.

The performer on most of Columbia's political spoken word recordings was Harry Spencer (Len's brother). William McKinley never made a recording.

George P.

An update: I have now identified a couple more of the cylinders. One is, indeed, "Say Au Revoir but Not Good-bye" by Edward M. Favor (Columbia 6509, prob. 1896). The other is "When Miss Maria Johnson Marries Me" by Len Spencer (Columbia 7280, prob. 1897). I have identified a third, too, although it's broken -- it's "A High Old Time," by "Vocal Quartet" (Columbia 9016, prob. 1896). It's a clean break; I hope to be able to fix it someday. Are there molds available to help me do this?

Since George brought up Columbia 5" Columbia Grand cylinders, I should say that I have a dozen or so, and I can confirm that even moldy ones sound pretty good. Rather than try to clean them first, I just play them, which seems to clean them pretty well. I'm sure there are good reasons I shouldn't do this, but I don't know what they are. If someone would care to enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.

One more question: None of my 5" cylinders fit entirely on the mandrel. I mean, NONE of them. The typical overhang is .5" to 1". Do people ream these? If so: how? (besides "very carefully") Does anyone sell 5" reamers?

And one more: "Since Mary Harris Went to Paris" by Dan W. Quinn (Columbia 5136, 1897). Is there any method to their numbering scheme?