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I've just got an HMV 157 upright machine, and am puzzled by the following. The needle sticks out of it's hole by a lot more than I consider the norm. "Aha", thought I, "there's a broken needle stuck in there". But no, there's not. On mounting the soundbox on to the arm, it became apparent that if the needle went further in, the soundbox would then slope inwards, proven by fitting another 5A from a 102 portable, and fitting the soundbox from the 157 onto the 102 does make the it slope outwards. My query then, is did HMV make the depth of the needle hole to suit different machines? Apologies for the poor pictures, but you may see from them what I mean.

Barry

If you don't receive a good reply, I can check with my 157 when I get home in the evening, Barry. The 157 is one of my machines that I not yet have serviced and studied since I bought it last summer. ( 2019).
Congratulations with s great machine too

The HMV soundboxes were sold as standard parts, if you look at their boxes there is nothing mentioning them to be dedicated to a particular machine. The length of needles was not standardized, so the soundboxes were designed to cope with varying distances between soundbox and record groove.

Phono48 wrote:I've just got an HMV 157 upright machine, and am puzzled by the following. The needle sticks out of it's hole by a lot more than I consider the norm. "Aha", thought I, "there's a broken needle stuck in there". But no, there's not. On mounting the soundbox on to the arm, it became apparent that if the needle went further in, the soundbox would then slope inwards, proven by fitting another 5A from a 102 portable, and fitting the soundbox from the 157 onto the 102 does make the it slope outwards. My query then, is did HMV make the depth of the needle hole to suit different machines? Apologies for the poor pictures, but you may see from them what I mean.

Barry

it looks very odd I think there is something stopping the needle going in fully or it's a very long needle

nostalgia wrote:If you don't receive a good reply, I can check with my 157 when I get home in the evening, Barry.

I would be grateful if you could do that for me.

Barry

If you figure that the needle is at least long enough to reach the thumbscrew, and maybe then some, then I've got to say, that's one of the longest needles I believe I've ever seen, regardless of hole depth.

I took some photos, I don't know if they are of any help, Barry. If you want me to take more photos from different angles, please tell.
A HMV soundbox No 16 is attached to my HMV 157, I actually did not know that before checking now. It is quite embarrasing to admit that I have not looked under the lid since I bought it a year ago. It is soon up for service though, since I finally am pretty close to have serviced all my floor models, 3 more to go only, including the Columbia 156a.

JerryVan wrote:If you figure that the needle is at least long enough to reach the thumbscrew, and maybe then some, then I've got to say, that's one of the longest needles I believe I've ever seen, regardless of hole depth.

Taking your comments on board, I have compared various needles.The one illustrated is a standard "Songster" medium tone, and no longer than any other of the many different makes I have.. The only ones I came across that were significantly longer were the "Embassy" (Woolworths finest!) The needles go into the hole just enough to be gripped by the needle screw, and no further. It's very difficult to see into the hole even with a torch, but having gently poked around with a sewing needle, I'm convinced there is nothing there to stop the needle going in further, i.e. a broken needle.

Barry

I adventure to say that there must be something firmly stuck into the hole bottom. The needle should be able to pass the screw so you could see only one third of its total length (I'm speaking from memory alone). In fact, if you looked by the opposite side of the needle chuck, you should see the back end of the needle. In this area, the needle chuck is not closed, it is a thick pipe, opened at the back, with the thin plates of the needlebar entering the pipe by two cuts, and soldered to the pipe. In my soundboxes, a too thin needle escapes by the back hole, at the sides of the needlebar, if introduced too far. Maybe your soundbox had an excess of soldering at the back of the chuck...
Anyway, I admit that I should take your photos and compare with my 5a/b soundboxes... but I'm not able to do that just now.

VERY interesting question indeed !

I bought an HMV 102 a while ago - it came with a 5a soundbox. I too was puzzled about how much the needle 'stuck out' when compared to my 5b soundbox.

I don't know the answer but there isn't anything stuck in the hole and mine actually came with a 102 portable.

I wondered if it might have been a manufacturing error ? Very odd ........................