The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

...or so it seems. I find it curious that European collectors seem to focus more heavily on portable phonographs than do U.S. collectors. Wondering if portables were just more plentiful & popular in their day, leaving large numbers still in existence? (Of course, there also seems to be a somewhat large following of HMV Orthophonic type machines.) Can any of our European collector friends suggest a possible reason for the focus on portables, or correct me if my observations are inaccurate? I must admit, they're a whole lot easier to store!!! (Yes, I have some too! )

Portables were indeed plentiful and popular in Britain between the wars. For many people a portable would have been the only machine they could afford. The better off might have owned a cabinet machine for indoor use and a portable for outdoors, hence the term "picnic gramophone" used by some ill informed eBay sellers.

British homes are generally smaller than American ones (we are a small densely populated island) so portables are widely collected, and not just for reasons of space. The range of colours and finishes are a constant source of interest with coloured machines, especially HMV and Columbia, achieving higher prices than basic black versions. "Colonial" portables made in solid Teak for the Indian market are more valuable still.

My home is full of portables, under beds, in the bottoms of wardrobes and in my workshop. My wife is convinced that they breed in there. I love them!

epigramophone wrote:Portables were indeed plentiful and popular in Britain between the wars. For many people a portable would have been the only machine they could afford. The better off might have owned a cabinet machine for indoor use and a portable for outdoors, hence the term "picnic gramophone" used by some ill informed eBay sellers.

British homes are generally smaller than American ones (we are a small densely populated island) so portables are widely collected, and not just for reasons of space. The range of colours and finishes are a constant source of interest with coloured machines, especially HMV and Columbia, achieving higher prices than basic black versions. "Colonial" portables made in solid Teak for the Indian market are more valuable still.

My home is full of portables, under beds, in the bottoms of wardrobes and in my workshop. My wife is convinced that they breed in there. I love them!

Thanks! Except for maybe the Victor 2-55, the British portables appear to be of a far higher quality than the US examples!

JerryVan wrote:Thanks! Except for maybe the Victor 2-55, the British portables appear to be of a far higher quality than the US examples!

In terms of sound quality, as opposed to build quality, I'd add the Victor 2-65, the large Columbia portables -- 161/162/163, along with Edison's P1/P2 and Brunswick's Panatrope models.

If you haven't seen it, this is an interesting read: http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/cha ... tables.htm (Sadly, most of the photos are gone.)

OF

JerryVan wrote: (Sadly, most of the photos are gone.)

?? I see six photos when I go to the link. What am I missing?

Henry wrote:

JerryVan wrote: (Sadly, most of the photos are gone.)

?? I see six photos when I go to the link. What am I missing?

Clicking on the images takes you to individual pages describing each portable. So for instance, clicking on the Columbia portable's image opens http://myvintagetv.com/updatepages1/cha ... bia161.htm where most of the images are now missing. Carsten Fischer created this page about 15 years ago, and imageshack was used for the image hosting site. Fortunately, the YouTube videos on each page still work.

OF

OrthoFan wrote: In terms of sound quality, as opposed to build quality, I'd add the Victor 2-65, the large Columbia portables -- 161/162/163, along with Edison's P1/P2 and Brunswick's Panatrope models.

OF

I would add the Victor 2-55 to the list, it has an excellent sound when fitted with a workable orthophonic, quite comparable in quality of reproduction with the HMV-102. The RCA Victor 2-65 has the best sound of all, except for the deep-cased colonial HMV 116 (sonically a 102 with a larger horn).

JerryVan wrote:...or so it seems. I find it curious that European collectors seem to focus more heavily on portable phonographs than do U.S. collectors. Wondering if portables were just more plentiful & popular in their day, leaving large numbers still in existence? (Of course, there also seems to be a somewhat large following of HMV Orthophonic type machines.) Can any of our European collector friends suggest a possible reason for the focus on portables, or correct me if my observations are inaccurate? I must admit, they're a whole lot easier to store!!! (Yes, I have some too! )

As I already had the chance to address previously on many topics (please forgive me for repeating myself) as a matter of fact portables were *much* more popular than anything else here in Italy. Should I give figures, I would say that 95% of the gramophones that can be seen at markets etc. are portables, 4% or less tabletop models, 1% the occasional floor machine. External horn machines are so rare that they may be considered as non-existing (and are thus replaced by a huge flood of crap-o-phones).

The reason is, in my opinion, that Italy was (and in part still is) an underdeveloped country which has always done much below its huge potential: small salaries, small houses, little education. Hence a portable - an off-brand unit made with generic parts in most cases - is what the few who could understand the importance and beauty of recorded music, could afford and store at home.

Again in my opinion, re-entrant horn machines are rare (this time in Italy and in all Europe alike) and moreover top-of-the-line machines are nearly impossible to find and sell ordinarily for the price of a small car. However, as we enthusiasts managed over time to put our hands on at least one, and then talk about it all of the time here, I understand that the idea that there's one re-entrant gramophone in every house might actually have been delivered overseas...

Marco Gilardetti wrote:
As I already had the chance to address previously on many topics (please forgive me for repeating myself) as a matter of fact portebles were *much* more popular than anything else here in Italy. Should I give figures, I would say that 95% of the gramophones that can be seen at markets etc. are portables, 4% or less tabletop models, 1% the occasional floor machine. External horn machines are so rare that they may be considered as non-existing (and are thus replaced by a huge flood of crap-o-phones).

Another reason for the dearth of cabinet and external horn machines today is that they are too conspicuous. You can hide away a portable under the bed or in a cupboard and forget about it, but you will have to get rid of a big thing that stares in your face everyday, eventually became out-of-date and does not match the home decor anymore.

Marco... 99% same in Spain. With many off brands made by small industries or big record and gramophone stores that had their own models. You see... say, 80% portable, 15% tabletops, and 5% uprights here. Consoles are very rare. And of course, lots of crapos, and exceptionally some open horn machines, their majority off brands, and very rarely an original HMV, Odeón or Parlophone, almost never a Columbia open horn machine. In 42 years collecting I've seen but one Columbia open horn!
These later years seems to suffer an overflow of French machines, mostly tabletops and portables, and occasionally a Pathé open horn or Difussor. Many Paillards and Thorens portables too...