The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

As if there is not enough to worry about, a visitor to the museum asked me if the celluloid cylinders are a fire risk. He was thinking of the old films. I told him I thought they were different materials, but I am not a chemist, so does anyone know?
Dave D

Yes, celluloid cylinder are quite flammable, but I would necessarily consider them a "risk". I recall seeing a video of someone lighting up a broken blue amberol but I cant quite find it.

Martin

I know they will burn, but is there a risk of spontaneous combustion?
Dave D

Dave D wrote:I know they will burn, but is there a risk of spontaneous combustion?
Dave D

I doubt it, or we'd certainly have heard about that by now. Not like the acetate film that you referred to.

JerryVan wrote:

Dave D wrote:I know they will burn, but is there a risk of spontaneous combustion?
Dave D

I doubt it, or we'd certainly have heard about that by now. Not like the acetate film that you referred to.

Good point. I have a friend who says he is certain that time travel is not possible or someone would have done it and told us about it.
Dave D

Dave D wrote:As if there is not enough to worry about, a visitor to the museum asked me if the celluloid cylinders are a fire risk. He was thinking of the old films. I told him I thought they were different materials, but I am not a chemist, so does anyone know?
Dave D

The problem with the old film stock was partially (IIRC) because of the silver nitrate emulsion reacting with the nitrocellulose base.

- Bill

Only if you put a flame to them.
They're very different from film stocks that can self ignite.

Film stock was cellulose nitrate , nitrated to make it transparent and more flexible as a film , cellulose nitrate is also gun cotton when more heavily nitrated , the film deteriorates with time and becomes unstable and liable to ignite spontaneously , this can't happen to cylinders as the cellulose isn't nitrated , it is plasticised with camphor which you can still smell on some , camphor is a solid at room temperature but transitions from a solid to a vapour without a liquid state , this why the sometimes crack as they shrink with the camphor evaporating

I was aware of the celluloid cylinders being flammable and no concern with self-igniting for those. However, this is very interesting and a bit concerning regarding the films. I have a nice original (and complete) Edison Home Kinetoscope that came with a number of early Edison Kinetoscope films. I have had the films stored in our home on a book shelf inside their original sealed metal "cans". Each film can has its original paper label indicating the film title and so forth. After reading the messages above about early films self-igniting I'm admittedly a bit concerned. Anyone else here have any of the early Edison films? And if so how do you store yours?

Doug

FellowCollector wrote:I was aware of the celluloid cylinders being flammable and no concern with self-igniting for those. However, this is very interesting and a bit concerning regarding the films. I have a nice original (and complete) Edison Home Kinetoscope that came with a number of early Edison Kinetoscope films. I have had the films stored in our home on a book shelf inside their original sealed metal "cans". Each film can has its original paper label indicating the film title and so forth. After reading the messages above about early films self-igniting I'm admittedly a bit concerned. Anyone else here have any of the early Edison films? And if so how do you store yours?

Doug

Hmm Don't panic but check out the link at the bottom , if you open the cans to check try and do it in an inert atmosphere ( you can buy Nitrogen on Ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nitrogen-Dis ... 2951690567 )and when opening the cans try and avoid "scraping" the can sides together

https://blog.scienceandmediamuseum.org. ... rate-film/