The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I know that conversions are a somewhat—shall I say, controversial—topic, but what are anyone’s thoughts on converting a common, poor-condition Victrola to an EMG-style exponential-horned machine?

I’m currently working on just that—a large paper appliqué horn to be driven by an Orthophonic soundbox—but, given my limited budget and woodworking abilities, if I try making a cabinet from scratch it will probably end up looking like a packing crate with a horn sprouting out of the top. Theoretically, I could probably convert a Victrola Consolette/4-3 cabinet much more easily and end up with a much better final result—but at the cost of an irreplaceable piece of history. But, I know that the Consolette is a very common machine, so if I could find one that is already badly worn, battered, scratched, or missing some parts, it might not be much of a loss. Would this be considered an acceptable conversion?

Alternative suggestions are also welcome!

- Ethan

Go for it. Converting a "basket case" Consolette is no big loss to the collector community. Given current machine prices, chances are that it would have been parted out anyway.

Recall that some of EMG's initial offerings were conversions of run of the mill 1920's HMV machines. So you are in good company!

Thought this hobby was about preserving history anyway.

No, it would not. If you want a cabinet, you call a friend to make you a better cabinet or learn to make a cabinet. Don't destroy to make stuff--it's contrary to the spirit of historical preservation and appreciation.

Ethan wrote:I know that conversions are a somewhat—shall I say, controversial—topic, but what are anyone’s thoughts on converting a common, poor-condition Victrola to an EMG-style exponential-horned machine?

I’m currently working on just that—a large paper appliqué horn to be driven by an Orthophonic soundbox—but, given my limited budget and woodworking abilities, if I try making a cabinet from scratch it will probably end up looking like a packing crate with a horn sprouting out of the top. Theoretically, I could probably convert a Victrola Consolette/4-3 cabinet much more easily and end up with a much better final result—but at the cost of an irreplaceable piece of history. But, I know that the Consolette is a very common machine, so if I could find one that is already badly worn, battered, scratched, or missing some parts, it might not be much of a loss. Would this be considered an acceptable conversion?

Alternative suggestions are also welcome!

- Ethan

I'd be queasy about hacking up an authentic machine, but (just a hint) I would feel no remorse whatsoever about repurposing the cabinet of a crapophone.

drh wrote:

Ethan wrote:I know that conversions are a somewhat—shall I say, controversial—topic, but what are anyone’s thoughts on converting a common, poor-condition Victrola to an EMG-style exponential-horned machine?

I’m currently working on just that—a large paper appliqué horn to be driven by an Orthophonic soundbox—but, given my limited budget and woodworking abilities, if I try making a cabinet from scratch it will probably end up looking like a packing crate with a horn sprouting out of the top. Theoretically, I could probably convert a Victrola Consolette/4-3 cabinet much more easily and end up with a much better final result—but at the cost of an irreplaceable piece of history. But, I know that the Consolette is a very common machine, so if I could find one that is already badly worn, battered, scratched, or missing some parts, it might not be much of a loss. Would this be considered an acceptable conversion?

Alternative suggestions are also welcome!

- Ethan

I'd be queasy about hacking up an authentic machine, but (just a hint) I would feel no remorse whatsoever about repurposing the cabinet of a crapophone.

Unlike the old Consolette, a crapophone cabinet may have a better motor. The Consolette has a single-spring from what I remember--and the time I "butchered" a crapophone I found a two-spring Garrard.

I think it is very acceptable. Don't try this on a Circassian Walnut XVIII. This hobby should be about enjoying history. NOT about saving every derelict Victrola. Let me know what parts you need!!! I bet I can dig up an Induction Disc or better motor if you would like one.

drh wrote:

Ethan wrote:I know that conversions are a somewhat—shall I say, controversial—topic, but what are anyone’s thoughts on converting a common, poor-condition Victrola to an EMG-style exponential-horned machine?

I’m currently working on just that—a large paper appliqué horn to be driven by an Orthophonic soundbox—but, given my limited budget and woodworking abilities, if I try making a cabinet from scratch it will probably end up looking like a packing crate with a horn sprouting out of the top. Theoretically, I could probably convert a Victrola Consolette/4-3 cabinet much more easily and end up with a much better final result—but at the cost of an irreplaceable piece of history. But, I know that the Consolette is a very common machine, so if I could find one that is already badly worn, battered, scratched, or missing some parts, it might not be much of a loss. Would this be considered an acceptable conversion?

Alternative suggestions are also welcome!

- Ethan

I'd be queasy about hacking up an authentic machine, but (just a hint) I would feel no remorse whatsoever about repurposing the cabinet of a crapophone.

Crapophone cabinets are usually botched togther junk, not worth repurposing, unless you're trying to build a fire..

Skihawx wrote:I think it is very acceptable. Don't try this on a Circassian Walnut XVIII. This hobby should be about enjoying history. NOT about saving every derelict Victrola..

I don't think history is not served by destruction, even minor destruction: the whims of collectors really aren't helping keep phonographs intact. Example: the amount of 2-minute Triumphs that were converted to combination machines. Improves functionality but for Pete's sake it's just as easy to buy an Amberola.
A VV-IV is just as much a part of history as an XVIII or a Gothic--and arguably is of greater historical significance, just like the Model T is more significant in history than the Auburn or Cord. It speaks more of a lack of appreciation when we do stuff like this.


(And just personally--the 4-3 is actually my No. 1 bucket list Victor. They sound great as they are, too.)


Now--what I would do if I was going to try doing something like this, would be to get a cabinet that had already been ruined by a bar/dresser/TV stand conversion. That would let me install a brand-new motorboard and yes, it'd have a governor-controlled or disc induction motor instead of a hand crank because if I had all that horn I'd want a perfect motor. The crank hole would have a switch there and I'd run a cloth cord through a brass grommet in the back. Horn would escape through the back of the machine on the black iron back-bracket of a VV-VI or something like that, because those outlast the wooden cabinets.

VanEpsFan1914 wrote:...Unlike the old Consolette, a crapophone cabinet may have a better motor. The Consolette has a single-spring from what I remember--and the time I "butchered" a crapophone I found a two-spring Garrard.

The early Consolette (and the Colony) were both equipped with a small, single spring motor and a 10" turntable, but according to the Victor Data Book,in 1926 the Consolette was fitted with a standard double spring motor (and 12" turntable), starting with serial number 39501. (Also see: http://www.victor-victrola.com/4-3.htm )

OF

JerryVan wrote:Crapophone cabinets are usually botched togther junk, not worth repurposing, unless you're trying to build a fire..

True enough, in absolute terms, but some of them actually *look* pretty nice, in a faux antique sort of way, and if all that's needed is a cosmetically presentable box to hold the works, I wouldn't necessarily rule one out. I'd certainly rather see one of those torn up than a "real" Consolette.

VanEpsFan1914 wrote:...Example: the amount of 2-minute Triumphs that were converted to combination machines. Improves functionality but for Pete's sake it's just as easy to buy an Amberola. ...

But an Amberola isn't a perfect substitute: leaving aside issues of comparative sound, it won't play 4-minute wax cylinders. To be honest, I have greater unease about the "LP gearectomies" sometimes done on the currently unpopular LP Consoles to get donor parts for converting other machines. (As an aside, I don't quite get the hate the LP machines draw; I've never seen one in the flesh, but from pictures I'd say they're quite handsome. Not to mention they seem to be a lot more uncommon than Triumphs of any stripe.)

That said, your idea of finding an authentic machine already butchered is not bad at all, as long as it's not readily amenable to restoration to its original form.