The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Sorry in advance from a new guy with limited knowledge on the subject.

My wife went to an auction today and picked up a this Cecilian $75 and about a four foot deep stack of records for $12 to get me rolling. We really enjoy music, and I had told her I was interested in these things, but just hadn't taken the plunge yet. It looks to my untrained eye to be in pretty good shape, short the grill silk being nearly gone. I checked it out and it works great and plays well.

There's really no info on the unit itself to speak other than the Cecilian logo. I've been digging on the net and all I can seem to find is that these were maybe sold by Wards. It seems odd to me there isn't much info out there for something sold by Wards.

I'm really interested in manufacturing era, parts resources for this apparent off shoot brand, etc... to get me started. Thanks in advance. I attached some photos if that helps (first post so I hope it works.

First, let me welcome you to the Forum, it is always great to see new people getting into the old phonographs. Also, the folks here have a great amount of knowledge and are always willing to share it with others. Looking at the pictures you posted I would say you got a really good deal on a nice looking acoustic phonograph. You are correct about the Cecilian phonograph being a Montgomery Wards house brand. Looking at your machine I would date it sometime between 1918 and 1925. The reason for my guess on the date is that a large number of patents that were held by companies like Victor and Columbia expired around the end of the First World War and many companies started making internal horn phonographs as soon as that happened. You machine was undoubtedly made for Wards from one of the many companies that started up during that time. Looking at you machine, it looks really nice and as long as it runs and plays well you should not have to do to much but enjoy it. I would recommend opening the machine up and putting light oil (sewing machine) on its gears and worm drives. Many of the machines made by the independent makers actually bought the motors, tonearms and sound boxes from large parts makers. A company called OkeY was a large producer of parts that were of high quality and run very well. There is a good chance that your motor and possibly other pieces were made by them. If you lift the motor board and see 'Motor of Quality' in the castings you have a OkeY product. If you do need to have your machine serviced, I would recommend George Vollema of Great Lakes Antique Phonograph (www.victroladoctor.com) or Jeff Whittington at Everything Phono (www.everythingphono.com). I have had my machines serviced by both of these men and they do superb work. One last thing if you do not know this already, be certain to get new needles for your machine and replace them after each record played. I know that sounds strange, but these machines were designed to have their needles replaced frequently or you can damage your records.

Once again, welcome to the great hobby of early talking machines. I got into this hobby about 10 years ago and have met some wonderful people along the way. It is a really great window into the past that brings those early times alive in a way no other hobby can.

Thanks for the reply. I wondered about patent expiration, because I found a Victor manual online and all the mechanics looked identical. When I found the manual, I did pull the motor/table and cleaned and lubed as you suggested. I know there was something written under there with the motor company name but my wife stumbled on some old Les Paul records so I had to get it back together and have a listen! We must have a couple thousand needles that were in a box inside it, all new in package, and a mix of different ones.

Thanks again for the info.

Congratulations- you have a slightly scarce machine, Montgomery Ward didn't sell nearly as many machines as Sears. It has a tine arm by Heinemann, (or Okeh) and probably their "Motor of Quality" so it should run and play nicely once the soundbox gets new gaskets. The date is probably mid-1920's as the case appears to be walnut, which was coming into style then.

Your Les Paul records are much newer, and cut at higher modulation levels and may sound quite strident and shrill on this machine, which was designed for acoustic records, not electrical recorded records.

Welcome to the board! I think you got a great deal on that Cecilian, very good condition
and nice cabinet! I bought a portable version recently (see thread link below) and I was
surprised by the high quality of this maker. I generally stick to Victors and Edisons but this is
my only portable at the moment and I'm happy with it.


http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... ble#p25161


Thanks for sharing the pics, and enjoy your machine!

I agree its a fine looking phonograph, one which anyone would be proud to own, and you sure can't beat the price.

Larry

Thanks again for all the info. I took a look and the motor label says SAAL MOTOR TYPE CC NO.15286 Chicago.

I wondered on what vintage records would play well, and used the fibre needles hoping I wouldn't damage the record. Phototone, you are correct it seemed shrill to me, but we enjoyed the experience.

I'll do some digging on the soundbox gasket.

I think my wife got a good deal, too. Kind of makes up for all the $2 boxes of odds and ends she usually brings home!

As far as the types of records that will work best, look for one that do not have a grove on the outer rim that leads the needle to the rest of the records groves. These records were generally made prior to the 1930's. They will play the best on your new machine and are made of materials that the heavy soundbox's of the era will not damage. By the time Les Paul - A great guitar player by the way - was cutting records they would have been made of lighter materials and recorded in a fashion that your machine will not handle all that well. I will admit that I have played newer records on my Victrola's and they do sound alright but not nearly as nice as they do on one of my newer turntables. I think you will also find yourself really enjoying some of the music from the early part of the 20th century. I have a modest collection of records from that era and I really love listening to them, they just have a sound all of their own. You really do have a nice looking machine that I believe you will enjoy for many years. I think you have made a really good choice for a first entry into the world of talking machines.