The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi!
I'm still newbie (second thread). I'm looking for my first old gramophone ever (hmv , victor or so.. ). Could You maybe give me some advice where could I look for it? I'm serching for it on ebay every day, going through all the auctiones. Unfortunatly most of them are not in very good working condition or little bit overpriced... or made from parts that do not match. So it's not very safe place to buy it at start.. I think.. or maybe I'm wrong ?

So should I:
- carry on seraching for it on ebay?
- search for private person who collects gramophones? ( maybe You know aybody)?
- look for auction houses?

where else can I find gramophones ?
I'd be gtareful for all the informations. What i'm trying to find is a nice gramophone with horn and good sound.

Thanks for all advice.

I live in east part of europe (poland) , we don't have any collector meetings here , it's hard to buy in person.. support is also limited.

Paul

If it were me, I'd seriously think about buying one from America, from a collector, and having it shipped to Poland, if you want a machine you dont have to worry about regreasing springs or restoring soundboxes on.
Even with exchange rates, America seems to offer the best prices for gramophones because they are far more plentiful there.
Good original & mechanically restored external horn machines dont come cheap anymore though, in any country, but even with postage, I think you'll most like get better value for money buying from USA.
I'd go for either a Victor or Columbia. There is good information out there on these machines, so you can easily check that what you are buying is correct, and by buying from a collector, there's less chance of getting something that's not quite right. They'd also take more care with packing the machine & ensuring it arrives in good condition, than your average ebay seller who's just in it for the money so to speak.

Hi Paul:

I'm wondering if you've ever been in touch with the Muzeum Okręgowe -- http://www.muzeum.bydgoszcz.pl/english.php

Google Map -- http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&num=1 ... a=N&tab=wl

Seems they have an extensive collection of machines and recordings, so it might be worth it to find out if the curator of the collection has any information about local contacts, etc.

Hello Paul,

I don't know of any other Polish collectors but I know of a couple in Czech Republic, (one is I) and there are several in Germany and other countries in Europe.

The answer to your question about "which one to start with as first gramophone" is complicated. You need to consider how much money you have to spend, internal horn or external, floor model or table top, early or late???

I would advise not to be in a rush. There are plenty out there to choose from. Also if you are not very aware of what you are buying, be careful. You could end up paying too much. I'm not sure if you've heard of the "crapophone" yet. The come in all shapes and sizes and are definitely something you want to stay away from.

If you have the free time to take a long weekend in late October, there is a phonograph, gramophone fair in Rüdesheim, near Wiesbaden where you could learn alot, even if you are not ready to buy.

Where in Poland do you live? If you ever come to Prague, I'd be glad to show you some of the things I have, just to make you more aware. I'm not really selling anything.

Regards,
Valecnik

gramophoneshane wrote:I'd go for either a Victor or Columbia. There is good information out there on these machines, so you can easily check that what you are buying is correct, and by buying from a collector, there's less chance of getting something that's not quite right. They'd also take more care with packing the machine & ensuring it arrives in good condition, than your average ebay seller who's just in it for the money so to speak.

Hi! Gramophoneshane

Yes Victor , Columbia is also my choice.. I would like to avoid frankophones.. or other gramophones with rare motor etc... To this models is easy to find spare parts... BUT the question is -> how to find right US collector , who have nice machine for sell ? I can even arrange transport in US to my friend , who will send it to me. Should I ask in APSCO , The Gramophone Doctor , Victrola Repair Service , Phonophan and others ? I know several web sites , but is it right way to email them directly ? Maybe you now some collectors , or if YOU-collector are here and you have one gramophone in fair price.. you are welcome..

Ortho_Fan wrote:I'm wondering if you've ever been in touch with the Muzeum Okręgowe -- http://www.muzeum.bydgoszcz.pl/english.php
Google Map -- http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&num=1 ... a=N&tab=wl
Seems they have an extensive collection of machines and recordings, so it might be worth it to find out if the curator of the collection has any information about local contacts, etc.

Hi Ortho_Fan!

I will try to call them tomorrow.. polish market is very very small.. one collector = huge prices.. But Thanks! Good to now that we have even one

Valecnik wrote:You need to consider how much money you have to spend, internal horn or external, floor model or table top, early or late???
.

Hi! external horn , table top , late. I like this :
ebay 170542476569
ebay 300469318115

Valecnik wrote:I would advise not to be in a rush. There are plenty out there to choose from. Also if you are not very aware of what you are buying, be careful. You could end up paying too much. I'm not sure if you've heard of the "crapophone" yet. The come in all shapes and sizes and are definitely something you want to stay away from.

I'm searching for it from ca. 2 months.. so I'm not in rush... yes there are lot of crackophones ... I see the diffrence. or I hope that I see

Valecnik wrote:Where in Poland do you live? If you ever come to Prague, I'd be glad to show you some of the things I have, just to make you more aware. I'm not really selling anything.

I live in Wroclaw.. so I'm not far from you ca.300km Pragha is very beautiful.. so when I will be passing trough I will pm you! thank You!


ps. Nice collection , but collector sell entire collection. Don;t want to sell just one machine.
phonographcollection
Best Regards!

Paul

Hi! external horn , table top , late. I like this :
ebay 170542476569
ebay 300469318115

Hi Paul, Victor Talking Machines are relatively cheap in the US and good quality as Gramophoneshane suggests. However if you are going through the trouble to get one shipped from the US, I'd opt for a slightly bigger one, perhaps a Victor III. It would not be significantly more expensive to ship but you get alot more machine, strong double spring motor. The small single spring motor of the Victor I is okay but the III is noticeably better, stronger.

Regarding the Pathé, they are nice, desirable machines but the records are harder to come by and more expensive. For your first machine, HMV, or Victor might be better for you. You might just find the equivalent HMV, or even a Victor at the Rudeheim fair at the end of October too.

Hi,

I think that a Victor product would be the best to begin with. A table model internal horn machine is a common choice. The Victor III is a good choice for the outside horn model. For starters, you can consider a VV-IV, or VV-VI or VV-IX and if shipping is not too much, a U.S. purchase is an idea. There are also good HMV machines that are worth considering.

As a small time collector, I like to go for the more common affordable models to start with. Your posting also interested me since we have done some genealogy and have Polish ancestors.

Let me know if I can be of any more help with looking for a phonograph or records. Good luck with your search, and don't be in a hurry. The others who have posted comments have shared good advice.

Wroclaw? Small world. I have family there (they own a pub by the opera house called Kogut, from what I recall). From what I can remember I had a great time last time I was there (I blame any memory loss on my cousin being tour guide to your city's finest bars).

As for the machines, if you're buying from the US, I would go only with a Victor. Even the horn machines were produced in such quantities that you will always find parts should something break. The Victor 1 you showed is probably a little over priced for the current market. I've seen Victor 1s go between $600 and $700. The only thing that made the Victor 1 on eBay a little more interesting is the horn adaptor that permitted using a larger horn than the normal Victor 1 horn (that part usually runs for between $60 to $100). But for that price, you can probably get a slightly better machine (for about $1000 you should be able to get a Victor 3).

And as long as you're going to take the hit on shipping, you might as well try for an external horn machine. The VV-IV and VI will cost you just as much in shipping as the machine is worth (doesn't make much sense if you ask me), and when you get to the VV-VIII and IX, there is so much machine, the cost of shipping wouldn't make any sense, and the extra money you could have purchased an external horn machine.

Good luck
JP

Be warned, many of the HMV gramophones I see on eBay (the UK site in particular) are glaringly fake. If you do decide to invest, perhaps let us know so the experts on here can verify it for you?

This website is of great help when spotting fake gramophones:

http://www.oldcrank.com/articles/crapop ... e%203.html

Be warned, many of the HMV gramophones I see on eBay (the UK site in particular) are glaringly fake

I think our friend here is specifically talking about HORN gramophones? Most Table Grands, Cabinet Grands, Upright Grands and portable HMV's on Ebay are genuine, albeit not usually very interesting or saleable if you ever wanted to sell them on.

I can count on one hand the number of genuine HMV horn machines I've seen on Ebay that haven't been sold by one of a handful of specialist dealers on Ebay in the past 10 years. Whilst some of these machines have been good (a couple, very good even) they tend to be very over-priced because the vendors believe that an HMV horn gramophone must be rare! The rest of the pack on Ebay have been atrocious knock-ups and best left to rot away on Ebay!