The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am selling A model C Edison Business machine from around 1905. Cabinet is in beautiful condition
as is the top works and pin stripes. Both the reproducer and recorder are complete with stylus.
This machine has an electric motor. I have never attempted to hook it up but all parts turn freely.
These machine do not turn up very often and not in this nice as condition. Price is $450 plus shipping.

Thanks
Pete

I've never encountered one of these, and I'm curious: will a regular music cylinder fit the mandrel? Or does it fit only dictation cylinders? A bit of searching on the forum suggests the reproducer is the same size as the standard Model C type for entertainment machines.

A standard size cylinder- or even a 6 inch Columbia- will fit, but the stylus size and the feed screw pitch are wrong. Edison did that on purpose so the business machine would be incompatible with entertainment cylinders.

pallophotophone wrote:A standard size cylinder- or even a 6 inch Columbia- will fit, but the stylus size and the feed screw pitch are wrong. Edison did that on purpose so the business machine would be incompatible with entertainment cylinders.

Thanks--because it has an electric motor, I had the idea of fitting one of those modern cartridge playback devices to it to make a poor man's Archeophone (for 2 minute cylinders only, natch), but if the feed screw pitch is wrong that idea goes down in flames. At least I learned something!

Good luck to Pete Stratford with the sale, and sorry to have intruded to what proved to be no end.

pallophotophone, or any other forum members:
Are any feedscrews, from any of the various Edison cylinder machines, interchangeable with this business machine to make it work with music cylinders? If not, a "normal" feedscrew could be cut and spliced to this feedscrew to change the pitch/speed... I know it will work, since I had to splice a feedscrew on a Columbia machine that had 2/4 minute gearing permanently attached to the end, but the rest was rusted beyond saving.

Curt A wrote:pallophotophone, or any other forum members:
Are any feedscrews, from any of the various Edison cylinder machines, interchangeable with this business machine to make it work with music cylinders? If not, a "normal" feedscrew could be cut and spliced to this feedscrew to change the pitch/speed... I know it will work, since I had to splice a feedscrew on a Columbia machine that had 2/4 minute gearing permanently attached to the end, but the rest was rusted beyond saving.

I have a model D of this machine. After looking at it very closely I think it would be an exercise in frustration.
The ½ nut is held on with 2 diagonal screws. The spring bar that holds the ½ nut is very short and has very little room for adjustment. The feed screw - to my eye- has a much larger o.d. than any of Edison's stand alone feed screws. The gear that drives it is also substantially - again to my eye- larger.
Since the drive gear is larger, then the rotational speed of the feed screw is likely slower. And the pitch/cut of the feed screw would have to be proportional to the speed of rotation.

And again- to my eye-the feed screw is longer than the regulation screws- from one end to the other. You'd need that extra length to play 6 inch cylinders.

An external method of driving the stock feed screw is more feasible. Remove the gear guard and the gear, replace it with a pulley and an external DC motor with a speed control to drive the feed screw at whatever rate it needed to be would be a better design- at least to me.

But come to think of it- I know the nominal speed of the entertainment cylinders is 160 rpm. But I don't know if the business machine can achieve that speed. At full tilt- I don't think it can- at least by eye. Applying a higher voltage, via the external rheostat, to the stock Edison motor to increase its' speed would probably burn the motor up.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic. Just calling it as I see it.

Decades ago I built - on an old 1950's era Dictaphone - a machine to play wax cylinders. I drove that feed screw with a small, fractional HP, DC motor via 2 pulleys, a belt and a rheostat. The feedscrew drive motor was bolted on the machine frame. It had an acoustic pickup that worked well, but I don't remember what it was. Coupled to a small HF horn driver that came from Lafayette Electronics and a suitable matching transformer.

All that said, that machine is in very nice condition and is worth saving - at least by my eye.

Looking at the feed screw on my Business Machine I thought it would be an interesting project to have a new one made. In fact have two made one for 2-min one 4- min cylinders. It would be cool having the spectacle carriage with both a reproducer and recorder. I hope someone thinks about doing it.

Rich Gordon

Rich, cool idea but the Originality Police might issue a bench warrant for your arrest.
Raphael

Raphael wrote:Rich, cool idea but the Originality Police might issue a bench warrant for your arrest.
Raphael

I don't think anyone has a problem with completely reversible modifications. It would be cool to add extra usage to these machines that would otherwise be mostly for display

Martin

rgordon939 wrote:Looking at the feed screw on my Business Machine I thought it would be an interesting project to have a new one made. In fact have two made one for 2-min one 4- min cylinders. It would be cool having the spectacle carriage with both a reproducer and recorder. I hope someone thinks about doing it.

Rich Gordon

Not to be picky, but you'd have to change the ½ nut too. Not at all convenient on this !!