The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

How many times has this happened to you? I went to pick up a Victrola just this week. The add said it came with "100 records". I never base the price of the machine on how many records it has because most of the time it's ill-treated detritus. Sure enough, when I arrived the records were stacked on the floor with bits of paper towel between some of them with chunks and bits of record on the floor around and on top of the pile. As I was leaving the guy said "let us know if there are any valuable records in there" and capped it off with "the other day we were watching HGTV and someone had a record worth ----$....."

100 records, I had to throw away 20 because they were cracked or otherwise broken, 5 others that were broken I'll make coasters out of because the labels were nice and I didn't want to throw those away, I'm donating 30 or so to good will and about 40 of them should go to good will but I'll hang on to them for a bit and make sure they're on Discogs. Only 5 were interesting as they were old single sided Victor or Monarchs (one has a small crack...) but certainly no $1,000 records in that bunch.

There should be a public service announcement that goes something like this "I'm sorry that your grandmother/grandfather/great-grand uncle's roomate died. Yes, there are incredibly valuable records out there... and no, you probably don't have any. Yes, there are incredibly valuable phonographs out there... and no, you probably don't have one". It should end with "that Victor XX-X with the ratty case and missing reproducer is NOT worth $500... to anyone".

Ah, just had to get that out there. I feel better now

I lot of it,I feel,is motivated by greed.Some can think what they have is worth more than it actually is. edisonplayer.

Basically, it's lazy, uneducated sellers who see a rare record or machine sell for a substantial sum, while they ignore the 1,000s of sold listings for common items and don't have a clue or interest in finding out, why one is worth more to a collector than say, a ratty VV-VI or a copy of Bing's "White Christmas"...

The thing about record collections is that, for the most part, people bought what they liked that was popular. This is what makes rare records rare- they weren't popular, for whatever reason- things like the Harry James/ Frank Sinatra Brunswick Sinatra debut, "Your Mother's Son In Law" by Benny Goodman with Billie Holiday on Royal Blue Columbia, Glenn Miller's 1935 Royal Blue Columbias, etc. A lot of these were either released in very limited markets, or people just did not care, because no one knew who Billie was in 1933 (or really even who BG was, for that matter!), or who Glenn was in 1935, or who Frank was in 1939.

Sometimes people will get upset that there aren't any big buck items in these collections, and take it personally that you are saying their deceased relative had no taste. That's not true at all- these records were never viewed as investments and I certainly wouldn't say that someone who liked the same tunes as a million other folks 90 years ago lacks taste.

Very true on all counts!

gramophone-georg wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:05 pm This is what makes rare records rare- they weren't popular, for whatever reason-

Sometimes, the reason seems to be, that they were just not good....

I sat in on a couple of Jazz Record Club "record spins" many years ago. It seemed that most of the members were serious, high-end collectors. They were showing off their "rarest of the rare" examples. It seemed that the more rare, the more they raved about the music. To my ear, most of the top end stuff sounded either pretty bad, or at least unremarkable, given the prices paid for them. I'm not picking on anyone's taste in music. In fact, I'm probably showing my own lack of same more than anything else. However, it was then and there that I made my mind up about why certain records are "rare". I do realize that there's a bunch of awesome sounds out there that are rare, not because they weren't liked, but because "racial" issues kept them from the mainstream venues.

More to the topic of this thread, it always troubles me slightly when we're critical of others who don't happen to have had a lifetime of interest in our hobby, with all the knowledge of terminology, pricing & history that we seem to believe every human being should have.

gramophone-georg wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:05 pm The thing about record collections is that, for the most part, people bought what they liked that was popular. This is what makes rare records rare- they weren't popular, for whatever reason- things like the Harry James/ Frank Sinatra Brunswick Sinatra debut, "Your Mother's Son In Law" by Benny Goodman with Billie Holiday on Royal Blue Columbia, Glenn Miller's 1935 Royal Blue Columbias, etc. A lot of these were either released in very limited markets, or people just did not care, because no one knew who Billie was in 1933 (or really even who BG was, for that matter!), or who Glenn was in 1935, or who Frank was in 1939.

Sometimes people will get upset that there aren't any big buck items in these collections, and take it personally that you are saying their deceased relative had no taste. That's not true at all- these records were never viewed as investments and I certainly wouldn't say that someone who liked the same tunes as a million other folks 90 years ago lacks taste.

As well, records from the time of the Crash through the mid-to-possibly late 30s were not selling well. Many people simply couldn't afford them or justify paying good money for something they couldn't eat or wear.

Here is an example of a $37,000. record... Alcohol and Jake Blues by Tommy Johnson. I guess I'm not enlightened enough to appreciate it, even if the decimal point was moved 4 spaces to the left...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayltwUwpW04

JerryVan wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:00 pm

gramophone-georg wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:05 pm This is what makes rare records rare- they weren't popular, for whatever reason-

Sometimes, the reason seems to be, that they were just not good....

I sat in on a couple of Jazz Record Club "record spins" many years ago. It seemed that most of the members were serious, high-end collectors. They were showing off their "rarest of the rare" examples. It seemed that the more rare, the more they raved about the music. To my ear, most of the top end stuff sounded either pretty bad, or at least unremarkable, given the prices paid for them. I'm not picking on anyone's taste in music. In fact, I'm probably showing my own lack of same more than anything else. However, it was then and there that I made my mind up about why certain records are "rare". I do realize that there's a bunch of awesome sounds out there that are rare, not because they weren't liked, but because "racial" issues kept them from the mainstream venues.

More to the topic of this thread, it always troubles me slightly when we're critical of others who don't happen to have had a lifetime of interest in our hobby, with all the knowledge of terminology, pricing & history that we seem to believe every human being should have.

Agree. Seems "gawdawful" is never cheap!

"More to the topic of this thread, it always troubles me slightly when we're critical of others who don't happen to have had a lifetime of interest in our hobby, with all the knowledge of terminology, pricing & history that we seem to believe every human being should have."

Jerry, I don't believe that everyone should have that knowledge, but some of the crazy pricing examples we have all seen lead you to wonder about the rationality of sellers who persist with their delusions even after being politely informed of their error, claiming that they are the knowledgeable ones...