The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I recently picked up this machine. I have always wanted an example of the "Cockleshell" model, but in the US they don't come up often. I have had a chance at a couple in the past, but they were in very poor condition. This one, in fact was very shabby when I bought it. Several hours of cleaning and polish however, gave a good result.

In cleaning the horn, I found some interesting "history" as to its finish. At first glance, the present green finish looks correct, (to me at least), however, it's a repaint. Looking closely, you can see the brush marks. In a few chipped areas, the next layer of finish is also green, but a little darker shade. Beneath the darker green layer is what must have been a very pretty red iridescent finish. So, you might say that the red was the original color, (or colour, in this case). BUT, looking carefully around the decal, which has thankfully not been painted over, reveals that it was applied over the second finish, i.e. the darker green, and not the red! Any thoughts?

Also, any background or comments about this model in general would be appreciated!

I'm not an expert, but what beautifully has it come out! Enjoy it! How good it sounds?

That’s a strange thing. The gramophone company provided this horn in green, black or maroon red. I’m wondering if they over-stocked maroon, maybe a slow seller, and had some of this over-painted in green. Green seems to have been more popular than maroon. The transfer-decal certainly suggests this was sold as the darker green and I have not seen red used as an undercoat/primer.

My scientific wild assed guess is either that all horns were initially painted red, OR as Jamie suggested, maybe they were overstocked on red and the buyer wanted green. The reason I suggest all were initially painted red is that, if these were painted in green or black to order, it would not have been practical to have stocks of bare horns sitting around as they would quickly surface rust.

The light and dark green likely started out as two coats of green. The outer coat faded over time, but the original hue is preserved under the top coat and also under the decal and adhesive.

In any case- beautiful machine. I would gladly have that in my living room!

The ‘pretty red iridescent finish’ you describe is typical of the maroon finish which is slightly transparent so that the tin-plate underneath creates this effect. It looks about the right colour in your picture.

Anyway as you say a beautiful machine.

Its a red horn painted "Spring green" by HMV in the factory to meet an order. It was not unusual for them to overpaint different colours. I've seen black horns painted green etc.

The lighter green is simply where an owner has repainted the horn without stripping it where the paint got rusty or damaged. That spring green is difficult to match. I spent several months trying myself and whilst in some lights I had a seemless match, on another day the new paint was painfully obvious.

For some reason modern and later paints lack the depth and "redness" of old paints.

Jerry, your machine is in beautiful original condition, congratulations. Its also a later Cockleshell from 1908/9. The earliest examples had the winder towards the front of the cabinet.

Jerry, great machine... I love the green horn, but don't lick it green paint was made with arsenic back in the day...

Curt A wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:46 pm Jerry, great machine... I love the green horn, but don't lick it green paint was made with arsenic back in the day...

Too late...

Thanks to all for your insights and compliments!

This is how it looked when I got it...
I don't believe it had been used in the last 75 years.