The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi all

I m currently working on the a/m gramophone which I presume is a Monarch of some sort.
It s pretty rough but it s all there so it s a nice piece to work on.
I ve hit an issue that you may have come across before with the mainspring. One is in good condition but I have to replace the other. The problem is the strength of the original is .45 mm but the only replacement I can get is for a no.32 motor which is .60 mm strength and possibly longer (which I don't think is a problem if I shorten it).
Have anyone used a stronger no.32 mainspring in one of these earlier machine s?
I think it will be fine but I d value a second opinion, maybe some one has tried it before.

Thanking you in advance
Eamonn

Eamonn,

Whatever spring you get, purchase 2 and replace them both. Even springs of the same thickness will vary greatly in strength, given that one is new and the other old, and weaker.

As to thickness in general, spring strength can increase or decrease greatly with seemingly small variations in thickness. Adjusting length does not compensate for this and would be poor practice. That said, it would most likely be fine to use the #32 springs available to you, if they are the same width & length as the ones you're replacing. (The only problem that may arise, is if you're putting stronger springs in a very early motor. They tend to have undersized & delicate winding gears and ratchets.)

Post some photos of your G&T please!

Hi Jerry

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately theres 1 x mainspring due to arrive tomorrow (no.32 type) so I think I ll try it by itself first and see how it goes. I m sure your right about it being better to have 2 of the exact same mainspring s but the owner does not have any interest in purchasing the second one so I ll have to see how it works out .
I ve attached some photos, as I say it's not looking it's best at the moment!!!
Any thoughts on who I might purchase a new stylus bar for a Exhibition reproducer from? Seems very difficult to get parts recently bar buying a full reproducer.

Thanks again for the advice
Eamonn

You might warn your customer that when the new spring eventually overpowers the old one and causes it to break, it will not be due to any errors on your part. In other words, there would be no way I way guarantee any such repair, if it were my customer.

Thanks Jerry

I definitely will, unfortunately he thinks he ll saving money by not buying the second mainspring, you can only bring the horse to water I m afraid!!!!!
I ll post pictures off the finished gramophone when I get there.
Any thought s on what model it is ?

Thanks again
Eamonn

casey-eamonn wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:05 am Hi all

I m currently working on the a/m gramophone which I presume is a Monarch of some sort.
It s pretty rough but it s all there so it s a nice piece to work on.
I ve hit an issue that you may have come across before with the mainspring. One is in good condition but I have to replace the other. The problem is the strength of the original is .45 mm but the only replacement I can get is for a no.32 motor which is .60 mm strength and possibly longer (which I don't think is a problem if I shorten it).
Have anyone used a stronger no.32 mainspring in one of these earlier machine s?
I think it will be fine but I d value a second opinion, maybe some one has tried it before.

Thanking you in advance
Eamonn

the "original" .45 mm IS NOT ORIGINAL and must have been replaced at some time !

Hi Soundgen

Thanks for the information, should the 'original ' strength have been .6 mm ??

Eamonn

casey-eamonn wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:33 am Thanks Jerry

I definitely will, unfortunately he thinks he ll saving money by not buying the second mainspring, you can only bring the horse to water I m afraid!!!!!
I ll post pictures off the finished gramophone when I get there.
Any thought s on what model it is ?

Thanks again
Eamonn

Once you've done a nice job with this, it will be a machine with some fair value. It's very deserving of a proper restoration. Too bad the owner does not see it that way... As you say, horses & water!

Hopefully, a very careful cleaning will preserve the original finish!

Others can speak more knowledgeably than I as to what model it is.

casey-eamonn wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:33 am Any thought s on what model it is ?

Thanks again
Eamonn

Hi Eamonn,
You’ve got a double-spring Mahogany Monarch. There was a single-spring Mahogany Monarch Junior using the same case but without the egg and dart mouldings going around the front and side panels. Sometimes these models are known as ‘Doric’ from the order of columns.

The date is 1907-1911 (source from His Masters Gramophone).