The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi , I recently picked up a Tiz-It for connecting a nice (older version without a spring) #10 Cygnet horn to my horizontal carriage Edison Standard D. Nice one-piece carriage BTW.

I have had a forum member or two opine that there isn't enough space between the reproducer and the horn. It's a sliver over 1 inch with the carriage in position as ready to play (there's even less space if the rest is engaged). The top nut on the horn/crane is maxed out full tight, and still that's all the clearance I can get. See photos.

First issue is the Tiz-It itself - the part that is supposed to fit around the reproducer is not perfectly round and is misshapen. Does anyone know how to "round" that so it can slide well around the reproducer, once we resolve the height issue? John Duffy and his excellent horn forms come to mind but this is very strong metal, not sure a dowel will do it!

Second is that the repro crane seems to hang a bit past level, visible from the top. All of the connections are good (with the pieces of the crane and with the crane/bracket connection, and the bracket is nice and tight against the body of the player).

Does anyone have any experience with any parts of this, e.g., bending the crane, rounding the Tiz-It, etc.? The crane seems super rigid and I don't know how I would bend it!

Happy to consider alternatives, like getting a new crane.

All ideas/suggestions/comments/questions welcome. Thank you in advance for considering my predicament!

Regards,

Adam

#1 problem: Tiz-Its are not made to be used with horizontal carriages - they were made as a substitute for rubber tubing on a slanted carriage...

#2 problem: You should use a spring suspension on your crane and the horn will sit directly on the reproducer without a connector. The spring will compensate for the horn moving from side to side.

That's an early cygnet horn before they went to spring suspension. It would have been used with an angled carrier arm. I sure wouldn't alter that horn. Cool as as a Tiz-It looks, it'll leak air. A rubber connector will sound better and insulate the reproducer from "clanking" as the horn moves.

Regards,
Martin

Hi Adam-- Sorry your tiz-it arrived bent.. You might want to consider talking with the seller about that.

If you keep it, I have a tool that I use to round out bent horn ends. (see below). The tiz-it is fairly substantial metal, but with a little coaxing, this tool should work. You are welcome to drop by one day and we can see what we can do. I think you can find one at HD, Lowes or a plumbing supply place. I've had it for years and can't remember where I got it. The number on it is BC T053. It pretty rugged.

Re: the crane-- One end padded in a vise and the other padded with a hollow pipe for leverage to bend it, may give you a little more clearance.. It looks like the radius is a little tight on the upper side and the rod bracket is angling down a bit. I doubt that you could do any damage. May be worth a try.

Brad Abell

Oops! I should have looked before I leaped.... I assumed the tool I have would thread through the Tiz-it far enough to engage the correct diameter to roll the dents out- I was wrong. Just tried it on a Tiz-it and it doesn't go far enough. Sorry-

But- They make different types of tools to round out the ends of pipe.. They're called a "swaging tool". Here's a different type..

https://www.cesdeals.com/products/6pcs- ... gJyUPD_BwE

I wouldn't use a drill, but manually working it against the bend may work.

Sorry for the misstep with the first tool...

Brad Abell

Bottom line, you've put an early horn & crane on a later phonograph. That really won't work well. You need a later, spring suspension, horn, along with the proper crane. When I say "proper crane", I don't just mean a crane for a spring suspension. I mean a crane that will support the horn directly over the neck of the reproducer, as not all spring suspension cranes will do that. Some are made for the more forward, angle mounted, C, H & K reproducers. It gets complicated...

Sorry, I didn't notice that you had an early horn with the rigid connector - in fact, the only cygnet horns I have seen were later ones made for a spring suspension system...

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful insights and ideas. I now have some mini-projects, testing all of the suggestions to see what will work best. Thanks also for all of the offers of help!

Does anyone have a picture with this earlier type of cygnet (rigid, not springed, crane) properly connected to a machine, so I can see what it should look like? I understand there are other factors (crane, earlier machine, etc.). Thanks for posting pictures if anyone can.