The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

This is a little different than the usual IX. It has the closely placed horn
slats. Not sure if this adds much to its value, but it is an anomaly. The motor
in this is what I refer to as the "hell 2 spring". Just taking it apart is like
an all day adventure. One of the barrels had a spring that would not grab
the center arbor and on top of that it was packed with some kind of super thick
bearing grease. So did the usual, cleaned out the crud, re-formed the spring, and
added my favorite grease. I added my "gold" exhibition and put the one with good
nickel on my Vic III. The best parts go where there is the greatest need I always
say. But anyways, this one runs and sounds pretty good. Made a quick video:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Hg3GyRTFs[/youtube]

Ah yes, this is the version with the full-length, piano-type hinges on the horn doors. It is also flat-bottomed (rather than the carved, Queen Anne style legs), correct?

What you have is a very early style VV-IX. You will also find this horn configuration in early IVs and possibly VIs and VIIIs. I had a IX like this, so I'll give some of my observaions about it. The horn was built into the cabinet rather than being a separate assembley. The cabinet floor formed the bottom, the motorboard was the top, and two angled boards formed the sides of the horn. The motorboard had felt srtips to seal it to the horn edges. The motor sat in the center of the horn. and the crank went through a slot in the right side of the horn. This was why there were more louvers and they were angled downward - to hide the motor from view. All In all, not a very scientific design but it worked.

This machine also had some other unusual features such as a 2 piece back bracket with a screw and nut arrangement for the pivot pin adjustment rather thann the more common setscrew and pin. It also had what I refer to as a "scissor brake" which is unlike any other Victor brake style I have seen. It was a spring loaded pantographic-looking affair which was not very effective and apparently had a very short production life. This part is not shown in any of the books but I have seen one other in gold plating on an L Door XVI. If anyone can shed any light on these brakes or post a picture of one, I would appreciate it. My machine also had the full length door hinges and the door knobs screwed directly into the doors with attached wood screws rather than the more common machine screws.

Tink, the machine you're thinking of with the queen anne legs is a VV-X. This was the first floor model of the X and was only made for about a year.

Jim

I just picked up one of the open sided queen anne X's. It has the Vic III style motor that is mounted to a thin metal plate. I think that was an attempt to gain a little space so Victor could get the motor out of the horn. It must have been a huge problem when the motor sat in the horn. Any motor noise would have been carried out with the music. My X has a closed horn with louvers pointing up. The difference, about ¾", between a typical motor board and the thin metal plate gave Victor the extra space to enclose the horn and still use the Vic III type motor.

Nice phonograph 1973! Thanks for sharing it.

Here is a picture of the brake that was on an Oak VV-X tabletop I had.

phonojim wrote: Tink, the machine you're thinking of with the queen anne legs is a VV-X. This was the first floor model of the X and was only made for about a year.

Jim

I am likely using the incorrect terminology here... I suppose what I was trying to say is that this early table top version has the, um, solid moulding all around the base whereas the later IX models had the small, carved legs in the corners.

Perhaps in my case, a picture (or two) is definitely worth a thousand words

Tinkerbell wrote:Ah yes, this is the version with the full-length, piano-type hinges on the horn doors. It is also flat-bottomed (rather than the carved, Queen Anne style legs), correct?

Right Tink, it has no legs but just the beveled base.

Jerry B. wrote:I just picked up one of the open sided queen anne X's. It has the Vic III style motor that is mounted to a thin metal plate. I think that was an attempt to gain a little space so Victor could get the motor out of the horn. It must have been a huge problem when the motor sat in the horn. Any motor noise would have been carried out with the music. My X has a closed horn with louvers pointing up. The difference, about ¾", between a typical motor board and the thin metal plate gave Victor the extra space to enclose the horn and still use the Vic III type motor.

As you can hear in the video before the record plays, there is a fair amount
of governor noise. Its quite possible this is being amplified by the position
of the horn/motor.

phonojim wrote:What you have is a very early style VV-IX. You will also find this horn configuration in early IVs and possibly VIs and VIIIs. I had a IX like this, so I'll give some of my observaions about it. The horn was built into the cabinet rather than being a separate assembley. The cabinet floor formed the bottom, the motorboard was the top, and two angled boards formed the sides of the horn. The motorboard had felt srtips to seal it to the horn edges. The motor sat in the center of the horn. and the crank went through a slot in the right side of the horn. This was why there were more louvers and they were angled downward - to hide the motor from view. All In all, not a very scientific design but it worked.

This machine also had some other unusual features such as a 2 piece back bracket with a screw and nut arrangement for the pivot pin adjustment rather thann the more common setscrew and pin. It also had what I refer to as a "scissor brake" which is unlike any other Victor brake style I have seen. It was a spring loaded pantographic-looking affair which was not very effective and apparently had a very short production life. This part is not shown in any of the books but I have seen one other in gold plating on an L Door XVI. If anyone can shed any light on these brakes or post a picture of one, I would appreciate it. My machine also had the full length door hinges and the door knobs screwed directly into the doors with attached wood screws rather than the more common machine screws.

Tink, the machine you're thinking of with the queen anne legs is a VV-X. This was the first floor model of the X and was only made for about a year.

Jim

Thanks for the helpful info Jim! You are correct, the cabinet is the horn and
the motor sits in the middle of it. Its interesting to note that the original
brake probably malfunctioned since there used to be a bullet brake installed.
There is no brake at all now so I am planning on adding a simple friction
brake like the ones found on a VV-VI.

Sonny, thanks for the picture. I haven't seen one of those brakes in at least five years and I don't care if I never have another one. The one I had did not have enough spring pressure to stop the turntable and I could find no way to do anything about it.

I have had several VV-IXs with the motor mounted to a metal plate.... never gave it a thought that it might have been used to gain vertical clearance between the motor and the horn.

I once bought a late-style oak IX with the corner legs, took it home and immediately learned that I didn't have a table that was deep enough to accomodate the legs. I was used to the older straight bottomed ones which you can set on anything, even if it hangs over. So, it sat on the floor until our next Saturday antiqueing trip when we took our measuring tape along and found a nice oak table for it. And there it sat on that table for the next 15+ years until I sold it before we moved south. The table came with us but it is now long gone too.

Sorry, Tink. Sometimes we geezers get a lot of our exercise by jumping to conclusions. Unfortunately, though, it's not very aerobic.

Jim