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Hello all,

I was curious if the collar rings to attach to the elbow is different from an Opera to a typical cygnet horn.

Thank you,
D.Edwards

I can't quite remember if I ever tried swapping the bells between my Edison School and my Idelia (which had a spruce Music Master horn). I don't have the Idelia any more, but comparing my pictures of it looks like the bells could have been swapped.

Also, I looked at Frow's Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion, in the section on Horns. It said Edison's Peter Weber designed the Cygnet Horn, "a curved version of the existing straight panel horns". It could be installed on all models except the GEM. In other words, Standard through Idelia, since this pre-dated the Opera. There were 10 and 11 panel versions, with the 11 panel on the higher end machines. Then it says that Peter Weber later recommended ordering Music Master horns with the same dimensions as the 11 panel Cygnet, and "“fitted existing cranes and elbow pieces”. When the Opera and School came out, they had to change the shape of the elbow. The School used a black version of the Opera elbow. I don't think there's any doubt that all Cygnet horn bells would be interchangeable. Especially when the book also says that the Edison School initially had 11 panel Cygnets, but later had 10 panel Cygnets, "“when perhaps the 11’s stock was run down after horn phonographs were discontinued in October 1913”.

Jim Nichol

I checked on my Opera and regular cygnet horns. Yes, They're the same size.
Bob

This thread got me thinking about the bell to neck collar on my diamond disc model A-250 horn to neck connection. Recall the earliest diamond disc machines had two part horns.

I believe the Cygnet neck collar from the 11 panel bell fits the A-250 bell collar as well.

Thank you for all the information. I assumed the collar rings were the same diameter, but you never know. The little alignment pins that help it lock into place is what I was really asking about. I thought the Opera maybe had them in different places (clock positions). But I needed to ask around. I appreciate everyone's input and efforts

Best,
D.Edwards

I knew you'd be concerned about the alignment pins. Before my earlier reply, the pins looked the same on the pics of my old Idelia compared to my School. Also, the comment from Peter Weber saying the Music Master horns would have to fit the existing Cygnet "elbow pieces" pretty well cinches it.

Jim Nichol

I would say they are more like "kinda sorta" interchangeable. Out of curiosity I did some experiments, switching elbows and bells around. Sometimes the pins are just slightly misplaced and the two parts don't fit together without really forcing them. Other times they fit so loosely when exchanged that the bell easily falls off the horn.