The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

If you were going to suggest a format for collecting records, what would it be? regular 78's, Blue Amberol? Id like to use an outside horn machine.

I am looking to start a modest collection of classical music. I can't justify/fit/afford any more machines in my apartment so I think I may delve into the record aspect.

Where could I find the best selection of classical? Which format is more affordable? If I go 78, then I will probably get a simple Victor machine, if I go Amberol I would go Triumph.

Thanks

If I were wanting to have a small collection of classical records to play on an outside horn machine, I would try to select records made at about the same time the machine was made, with few exceptions. The older records would play and sound better.

Personally, I would go for ordinary 78's, but I guess it depends whether your motivation for collecting them are pleasure or profit. I'm guessing it's the latter seeing as you are a machine collector but dont own records to make the machines usable?
However, if investment is what you have in mind, I'd strongly suggest picking a different genre
Classical music is probably the second least collectible genre around, with sacred music taking first place.
Collecting classical music on BA & other celluloid cylinders would give you an extremely limited catalogue of music from a small handful of companies & performers, recorded over a period of about 20 yrs. Cylinder records would probably also be considered the worst around by most serious music listeners, due to tighter frequency capabilities in recording and playback. Even the actual number of different instruments that could perform the piece was far more restricted on the cylinder format, and most (if not all) were recorded by nobody house musicians.
To make sure you kept both your machine & cylinders in the best possible condition, you'd also need to make sure your Triumph was fitted with a horizontal carriage & Diamond B reproducer.

With 78s, you can find all the greatest orchestras & conductors at any given time from around the world, as well many lesser known performers, on literally thousands of different labels recorded over a much broader time span, and with a seemingless endly catalogue of titles.
You can choose anything from early Berliners or Russian G&Ts, through to Victor VEs or virtually any label from the pre mid-1930s. You can even extend that by another 20 yrs if you're willing to buy some pressings from overseas. Different recording technics & sound quality can even add a little bit more interest to more popular/common titles.
Most can be found for very little money, but you can also hunt out the rarest or most desirable recordings & spend a fortune.
If space is a problem, then 78s are better too.
With 200 BAs you'll need a chest of drawers to store them, but with 200 discs you can sit them on the floor & slide them underneath a chest of drawers

Thanks for the replies.

Im not buying for exclusively for profit, but these days I have been selling a machine here and there. I have machines, and crappy records (to me at least). I just like the idea of slowly buying a a cabinate and nice horn machine and pulling out some records I know sound good and enjoying them. If classical music is so unpopular, I probably would want to stick to 78's as they would be easier. Now I just need that glass front Pooley record cabinate.

The range of available music on 78's is much, much broader, and much easier to aquire.

Any junk store, jumble/charity shop and so on that carry's 78's at all is virtually bound to have some classical among them, usually dirt cheap.

Cylinders on the other hand, even the most common, nowadays seem to be hard to find 'in the wild' and even if you do, they might be at least five, ten dollars each. You could get a nice pile of old classical Victor batwings for that kind of money.

gramophoneshane wrote: Classical music is probably the second least collectible genre around, with sacred music taking first place.

It depends. While 99,9% of classical music has little or no monetary value, the remaining few is, sometimes extremely, costly and very collectible. To cherry-pick those diamonds, provided your budget is limited, demands encyclopedical knowledge, criminological sense and much luck. This, together with the fact that you have an exclusive hobby shared by only a few dozen experts worldwide (e.g. the late John-Paul Getty), makes the special appeal of early classical music.

gramophoneshane wrote:Most can be found for very little money, but you can also hunt out the rarest or most desirable recordings & spend a fortune.

But it's still the second least collectible genre around, and many collectors throw them in a dumpster unfortunately.

I find this to be interesting that so many people readily dismiss classical / opera 78s in general. It's nothing new, indeed, but it's a large part of my collection and probably the stuff I play the most!

As Starkton points out, most of it isn't rare or very valuable, but that makes no difference to me for the most part. If you want to see or get a general idea about what is sought after and certainly rare, check out Larry Holdridge's website: www.holdridgerecords.com. Larry is THE authority in my book and an absolute gentleman to deal with, I consider him a good friend.

USEVL, you're in Brooklyn, if you ever want to take a day trip to the outskirts of Albany, let me know. I have TONS of duplicates, triplicates etc of classical and opera 78s that are basically free (or very cheap, depending) for the taking.

Sean