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We recognize this as the back of a VV-XVI. Note opening doors. A VE would have doors but with vents. These have no vents but pulls. Other photos in listing are typical hand-wound, not electric. I am suspicious the doors were made to create a hiding place, maybe for liquor during Prohibition. Or I am wrong and can learn something new.

Listing is here to see more photos
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... _type=post

I'm confused.
The Facebook for sale listing says this is possibly a (rare) 1912 model, and according to the Victor Victrola site this cabinet style was made between 1912-14, and 40,000 units were made, so why are they considered rare?
Is it because most spring motor cabinets don't have these back doors?

If that's the case, the prohibition theory sounds a bit strange. Surely a big company like Victor wouldn't risk making cabinets to hide illegal contraband?
Wouldn't it be more a case of over supply of electric motor cabinets that perhaps weren't selling as well as they hoped, so the rear doors weren't drilled with vent holes and spring motors were fitted to some of the cabinets?
Not knowing much about American Victor's, I thought I'd ask.

gramophoneshane wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:37 am I'm confused.
The Facebook for sale listing says this is possibly a (rare) 1912 model, and according to the Victor Victrola site this cabinet style was made between 1912-14, and 40,000 units were made, so why are they considered rare?
Is it because most spring motor cabinets don't have these back doors?

If that's the case, the prohibition theory sounds a bit strange. Surely a big company like Victor wouldn't risk making cabinets to hide illegal contraband?
Wouldn't it be more a case of over supply of electric motor cabinets that perhaps weren't selling as well as they hoped, so the rear doors weren't drilled with vent holes and spring motors were fitted to some of the cabinets?
Not knowing much about American Victor's, I thought I'd ask.

The other problem is that Prohibition started in 1920.

lol
Perhaps they had a crystal ball and could see into the future?

Victor must have thought many more of those electric machines were going to be sold than actually were or it was just easier to build all the cabinets that way. I found a sheet music stand in one of those spaces a long time ago. I bought the thing on a rummage sale and they didn't pull it from the wall when it was priced. I bought it and found that thing inside when I was taking it apart to lighten it up some. She said her grandmother accompanied the Victrola with her violin and that must have been the stand she used. She was REALLY happy when I told her she could keep it if she wanted.

Some of the logic Victor used in those days is kind of strange I think. All of the motors Victor was making for all the different machines must have been a huge burden on the parts department. It's strange that they didn't standardize some of those things much sooner than they did.

The theory that these were from a VE-XVI seems to contradict the seller's date of 1912, as the VE-XVI was not introduced until 1913, according to the Victor-Victrola page. If we knew the serial number of the machine, that might clarify the issue.

- Bill

I am suspicious the doors were made by the owner to create a hiding place, maybe for liquor during Prohibition.

Hey Jack, where can we stash the booze? I have an idea, let's put doors in the Victrola, shove it against the wall.

Anyone could do that today, it's only a shabby back panel.

Or an expert will post, they were ALL made that in 1912, don't you know anything?

Here is another 1912 with doors in the back. So they really were all like that. What a strange place to put doors.

The Edison Amberola 1A has a rear door behind the motor, and that dates to 1909.

It should be very easy to tell if the doors are a later addition if you could see the machine in person, because the finish wouldn't match the original finish on the rest of the machine, and the inside of the compartment would likely differ in some way to what's found in the VE.

From what I can see by enlarging the picture above, it appears to be as it left the factory and way too good to be a later alteration.
Personally, I think the prohibition theory is pretty far fetched and it's simply a non vented cabinet for the VE.

Edit: I see above now that it appears all these cabinets have doors, so I guess that throws the prohibition idea out the window.