The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

So, recently I have collecting more early Jazz 78’s. Mainly focusing on the black jazz players as opposed to the white Jazz players. Mainly; Fletcher Henderson, King Oliver, Jelly Roll Morton, Mammy Smith, Bessie Smith. Which is the Jazz I prefer to collect.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, or Paul Whiteman. It’s more of a personal preference.

Edisonfan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:08 pm So, recently I have collecting more early Jazz 78’s. Mainly focusing on the black jazz players as opposed to the white Jazz players. Mainly; Fletcher Henderson, King Oliver, Jelly Roll Morton, Mammy Smith, Bessie Smith. Which is the Jazz I prefer to collect.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, or Paul Whiteman. It’s more of a personal preference.

All of these are great artists (maybe Mamie Smith is not at the same level). Some of these are hard to find in decent playable condition, and when on the market are quite expensive, like the early King Oliver and the acoustic Bessie Smith records. Jelly Roll Morton Victors Red Hot Peppers are easy to find and are very well recorded, as well as the electric Bessie Smiths. Fletcher Henderson is somewhat of a mixed bag, the earlier records are mostly dull imitations of Paul Whiteman, except for the ones with Louis Armstrong in the band. His electric records are great. The early Duke Ellington records with Bubber Miley are also great (ALL Duke's records are great), I suggest you add them to your list, they are lots of fun ! and evidently Armstrong, the greatest of all.

Thank you!

I recently won some King Oliver on Blue Bird reissue and American Jazz club reissue. Finding the original 78’s can be challenging and expensive. I will admit.

I have Miff Mole on Podcast #88.

Great trombone player who influenced early Jazz.

Marc

Edisonfan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:08 pm So, recently I have collecting more early Jazz 78’s. Mainly focusing on the black jazz players as opposed to the white Jazz players. Mainly; Fletcher Henderson, King Oliver, Jelly Roll Morton, Mammy Smith, Bessie Smith. Which is the Jazz I prefer to collect.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, or Paul Whiteman. It’s more of a personal preference.

I also would rather collect more of the artists you mentioned, but I don’t feel as guilty playing Paul Whiteman or ODJB on period equipment as I would Louis Armstrong or JRM. Not to mention my pockets aren’t as deep and I couldn’t be able to afford those artists for the prices most folks ask for them. (It’s real hard to part with over $30 for me just for a single record)

AmberolaAndy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:54 pm

Edisonfan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:08 pm So, recently I have collecting more early Jazz 78’s. Mainly focusing on the black jazz players as opposed to the white Jazz players. Mainly; Fletcher Henderson, King Oliver, Jelly Roll Morton, Mammy Smith, Bessie Smith. Which is the Jazz I prefer to collect.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, or Paul Whiteman. It’s more of a personal preference.

I also would rather collect more of the artists you mentioned, but I don’t feel as guilty playing Paul Whiteman or ODJB on period equipment as I would Louis Armstrong or JRM. Not to mention my pockets aren’t as deep and I couldn’t be able to afford those artists for the prices most folks ask for them. (It’s real hard to part with over $30 for me just for a single record)

I understand!

Marc Hildebrant wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:31 pm I have Miff Mole on Podcast #88.

Great trombone player who influenced early Jazz.

Marc

I’ll have to check that out! Do you have a link?

Paul

Podcasts (lots of Early Jazz) are at: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1449838/

Regards,
Marc (Vic Trolla)

Marc Hildebrant wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:39 pm Podcasts (lots of Early Jazz) are at: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1449838/

Regards,
Marc (Vic Trolla)

Thank you!

Edisonfan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:08 pm So, recently I have collecting more early Jazz 78’s. Mainly focusing on the black jazz players as opposed to the white Jazz players. Mainly; Fletcher Henderson, King Oliver, Jelly Roll Morton, Mammy Smith, Bessie Smith. Which is the Jazz I prefer to collect.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band, or Paul Whiteman. It’s more of a personal preference.

Jazz really IS "America's music", though... there's WAY more collaboration between races there than anywhere else in US society at that time. For example, Leo Reisman hired Bubber Miley for awhile. Fletcher Henderson said nobody played his charts the right way till Benny Goodman got hold of them. Speaking of Goodman... he was the first to hire Billie Holiday to record. After that, she recorded with Teddy Wilson and was with Basie for awhile. Artie Shaw hired her after Basie fired her, and it was Shaw who propelled her into the national spotlight.

Then there is Ted Lewis, who featured Fats Waller on some records. Jack Teagarden did, too, on his early 1930s records. McKinney's Cotton Pickers, fronted by Don Redman, joined Goldkette's band in the studio on a few sessions. Goldkette was a band manager, and McKinney's was one of "his" bands.

"Volunteer Negro" Mezz Mezzrow is another story in seamless integration, often featuring top black sidemen in his bands. When Tommy Dorsey wanted to "re-spark" his band, he hired Sy Oliver.

And so on...

A few other fantastic black bands are Bennie Moten, Fess Williams, and Charlie Johnson. A lot of their sides can be found on Bluebird reissues.

Jazz itself has four major influences- Italian American, Irish American, Jewish American, and African American. The AA influence contributed the blues and gospel influences, as well as the 'swing'.