The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Gang,

I finished music restoration to a large group of Edison Diamond Disc Records and have now started on a large collection of 78 Acoustic and Records. The effects of steel needle wear and moving the tonearm across the record causes a very noticeable degrading of the music when you have a chance to compare the two different technologies.

I have a number of similar songs that were recorded on the two different types of records and at times even the same artist. The Edison Diamond Disc versions are clearly better sounding today.

Now, the business model for the Companies Edison vs Victor (and the others) was quite different. The Victor company provided a lower cost product for the public (machine and record) vs the Edison Company (machine and record). The public clearly wanted a low-cost product and was O.K. with the early wear-out and poorer quality sound.

Today, we have a large number of people that prefer a cell phone picture to a fancy Canon or so camara, so it seems that cost and convenience are still the most important elements.

Many other examples are possible, Hi-Fi audio verses sound from cellphones, etc.

Marc

I’ll post some internal Edison documentation that talks about time-to-market for recordings of popular songs, which is a major factor in the decline of their market share.

But regarding your comments about quality…

Cameras on phones are now better than all but the best handhelds, with the bonus of carrying the processing software in the same device. The sound quality is similarly better than most people can hear…but this is where it ends.

Today, (most?) people are satisfied to view the high quality photos they take on the tiny screens of their phones, tablets, and laptops. And to listen to audio on the tiny speakers built into those devices or on earbuds.

Apple makes it super easy to share content to other devices. However, when I put photos up on the big 65” UHD teevee, or play music on the home theater sound system, my kids (ages 22 and 26) admit that it’s enjoyable - but unnecessary, in their opinion.

It would seem that everything is so fast and in such large quantities, that fewer of us are willing to sit and really soak anything in anymore.

PeterF wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:47 pm ...Cameras on phones are now better than all but the best handhelds, with the bonus of carrying the processing software in the same device. ...

With cameras, one other point is worth bearing in mind: as one photographer put it, "The best camera is the one you have on you when the opportunity for a good shot crops up." A cell phone is always right there, inconspicuous but ready to shoot. Even the smallest digital camera is something that must be carried consciously and likely awkwardly. Hence even news organizations are laying off their professional photographers and relying instead on reporters' taking photos with their cell phones.

PeterF wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:47 pm I’ll post some internal Edison documentation that talks about time-to-market for recordings of popular songs, which is a major factor in the decline of their market share.

But regarding your comments about quality…

Cameras on phones are now better than all but the best handhelds, with the bonus of carrying the processing software in the same device. The sound quality is similarly better than most people can hear…but this is where it ends.

Today, (most?) people are satisfied to view the high quality photos they take on the tiny screens of their phones, tablets, and laptops. And to listen to audio on the tiny speakers built into those devices or on earbuds.

Apple makes it super easy to share content to other devices. However, when I put photos up on the big 65” UHD teevee, or play music on the home theater sound system, my kids (ages 22 and 26) admit that it’s enjoyable - but unnecessary, in their opinion.

It would seem that everything is so fast and in such large quantities, that fewer of us are willing to sit and really soak anything in anymore.

That's one of the things I really enjoy about phonographs- you get REALLY great sound and clarity that you wouldn't usually get without paying hundreds or thousands for a good audio setup.

We have spent a century or more perfecting our recording techniques so we could get absolutely the best and most accurate recordings possible only to have most people listen to the final product through a two-dollar set of ear buds, often while jogging. Our beautifully crafted .aiff or .wav files are converted to a lesser quality format such as .mp3 and played over a system that can only be likened to listening to music through a tin can. It’s probably similar to what Thomas Edison was hearing when he listened to his recordings while biting into the wooden cabinet of his phonograph. Oh, well!

A few years back, while doing the final mix for a CD I had recorded, I found that you no longer can mix music to just a stereo speaker system. You also have to make sure the mix is compatible with headphones, ear buds and car systems, all of varying quality. With this particular CD, I was sure I had a good mix and was finishing it up with the engineer. My wife and I decided to listen to it one last time while driving in the car. When one particular song started playing, the bass was so loud you couldn’t hear anything else. This had never happened on any of the other systems even though everything I played them on was very high quality. I whipped out my phone immediately to call the engineer and tell him not to send it off yet.

With regard to sound quality placed into the CD.

When I produce restored music, I test out the result on my fancy high-end system and in my car as both have to sound good. Some people use a special set of monitor speakers that try to emulate the widest range of playback conditions and therefore set the quality up on their monitor speakers.

My podcasts use a 320 K conversion rate from wav to MP3 files and I put a lot of work into creating a balanced, wide range sound. It is frustrating to me to have people use low end computer speakers to hear my music, but it is their choice.
Good quality, low-cost audio equipment is available, if wanted. People make their choice for playback quality.

Marc

Marc, your transfers sound incredibly well, in small speakers too, and with earphones. You do an incredible work.

Inigo,

Thanks for your kind words.

By the way, I added more podcasts today.

Marc